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The Pamphlet Collection of Sir Robert Stout: Volume 85
[Charles Moore, 5th April 1886]
- The Hon. J. F. Levien, M.L.A., in the Chair;
- The Hon. J. Buchanan, M.L.C.,
- T. K. Dow, Esq.,
- D. Martin, Esq.,
- Joseph Knight, Esq.,
- James Baird, Esq.,
- The Hon. W. Madden, M.L.A.,
- Andrew Plummer Esq., M.D.,J.P.
- Charles Yeo, Esq.
- Charles Moore, Esq., F.L.S., examined.
Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S., 5th April 1886.
929. You devoted considerable attention to analyzing the different plants that can be grown in this colony commercially with success, I understand?—Yes, I am perfectly acquainted with them, and their cultivation, and their suitableness for the climate.
930. Have you prepared a list?—Yes, I have a general list, and then I have separated the lists.
931. Under different heads?—Under different heads; and if you will allow me, I would suggest what has just occurred to me, that I should read over those lists, and then any questions could be put to me with regard to the plants.
932. Thank you?—We will take the grain-bearing plants first. Of course, I have put down the wheat, barley, and oats, maize, rye, millet, lentils, and gram. I do not suppose there are any questions to be asked with regard to those, as they are all plants which can be cultivated, and profitably cultivated, in my opinion, in this colony. Lentils we have grown very little of in our colony. The gram is a most easily cultivated plant, and most useful for horse feeding. Then all the millets could be produced here in summer time just as well as in our colony. We have a warmer climate certainly, and we might produce them to a certain extent better; but all the others everybody in the room is well acquainted with. I may say I have selected those from a multitude of plants, and I have put down only the plants that I think could be profitably cultivated here. Those are the grain-bearing plants which, I believe, could be profitably cultivated here.
933. Is the gram grown in New South Wales commercially?—It has been grown, but it has not been cultivated largely; it is most easily cultivated.
934. It is largely imported, is it not?—Largely.
935. From India, I think?—A great deal comes also from the south of Europe.
936. What number of bushels would you get from the acre?—I am not able to say. If the evidence which I give now were given to me, I then could supply such information as you want upon that point. 937. Is it more productive than pease?—Equally productive with pease, and in some situations much more so.
page 27
Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S.continued, 22nd March 1886.
939. Do you know the quantity of gram that was imported into New South Wales?—I do not; but I said before, if the evidence is supplied to me in print, I will supply all that.
940. It is largely imported?—It is largely imported, and some years ago was to a very large extent indeed.
941. What is it used for?—For horse feeding.
942. It is not fit for human food, is it?—I do not think so, but I am not sure.
943. Is it good for poultry?—Excellent for poultry.
944. Do you know its commercial value?—I do not.
945. Can you say what it can be grown for per acre?—No; I say if the evidence be supplied to me, I will gladly supply that from authentic sources; it would be mere guesswork for me to do it now.
946. Have you grown gram in a small way?—Yes.
947. Did you find the plants grow well?—Very well indeed.
948. At what season of the year do you sow it?—At the early part of the season, just like other grains.
949. And millet?—Millet you require to sow early, of course; but sometimes we can get two crops a year, in our climate, of the various various sorghums.
950. Is this the broom-corn?—Yes, there are several so-called species of broom corn, but they all produce good grains, and then their profit is for other purposes; they make the millet brooms of them. It is a very useful plant indeed to grow in a country like this, for the grain is first used and then the heads come in for brooms.
951. Do the heads mature sufficiently here to use for brooms?—I think this climate would produce them almost as well in summer as in New South Wales
952. What is the grain used for?—For feeding any stock; cattle eat it readily.
953. And poultry?—Yes, very readily, and it is very fattening.
954. It is a species of sorghum?—It is a species of sorghum.
955. There are many varieties?—I suppose there are some half-dozen.
956. There are some species, and then there are the varieties of species. Does this plant that you specially refer to produce sugar?—Yes.
957. Would it be of commercial value for sugar?—That has been proved in New South Wales; very good sugar can be made from it and profitably; but since they have gone into the real sugar-cane, it seems to have fallen into disuse altogether.
958. They are making a sort of treacle, I think, from some of those sorghums in America, very largely?—They are.
959. Do those varieties bear seed of commercial value also?—Yes.
Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S.continued, 5th April 1886.
961. Does the seed contain an oil?—No, the plant itself as green food supplied to swine.
962. It makes the bacon too oily?—Yes.
963. But the plant itself does not contain oil?—No.
964. Nor the seeds?—The seeds no doubt do in small quantity; but I it is used as green food; it contains a great deal more sugar than maize, and has more fattening in it.
965. It is sown, I suppose, at the season that would correspond with the season for sowing maize?—Quite so.
966. And lentils, is that a little flat tare?—Yes.
967. Are they grown largely with you?—Not very largely, but they are grown in some parts.
968. What are they used for chiefly?—Principally for feeding stock.
969. In the green?—It can be used in the green state, but lentils are mostly used in the seed for the fruit, a small pea.
970. Do you know the value of lentils per bushel?—I do not.
971. Can you tell us the quantity of rainfall required for the growth of gram?—The rainfall varies as much in our colony as it does here; and while we have from 45 to 47 inches on the coast, it varies as we go to the westward to about 8 or 10 inches; and so we have it through the intermediate places, the rainfall varying from the one to the other.
972. Do you know the rainfall that is required for the growth of gram?—I have seen it mostly cultivated upon the coast ranges where the rainfall is much heavier than beyond the coast range. We are not an irrigating country. I do not know a single farm that is irrigated in New South Wales.
973. That is one of the difficulties that we have here in collecting evidence; plants might grow with you on the coast side of the colony, and not inside where there is only 10 or 12 inches of rain to get the plants to grow; therefore I want to know whether you have tried them in the interior where there is little rainfall?—My experience is up the coast range.
974. But, with irrigation, of course they would grow anywhere?—Yes, anywhere; we are dependent upon the rainfall for our crops. It we have plenty of rain, we get a good crop; if we do not, of course, we have very little.
975. How would gram be able to compete with oats at the present price?—I do not know that; but in introducing these three I had this idea, not that I say that they should be produced in preference to other crops, but something fresh, so that the farmer could get something else beyond what he has been accustomed to cultivate. I am not very certain how far these would compete with barley and oats as a profitable crop; that is the question; but these things might be introduced, and they might suit some situations much better than the grains they have been hitherto in the habit of cultivating. That is my only reason for introducing these things. I do not advise them, I merely submit their names for consideration.
page 29
Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S.continued, 5th April 1886.
977. I should like your opinion upon this branch of olives from Dookie?—The olives at Sandhurst were nearly twice the size of these. I brought one away with me, but I left it at the club.
978. Are there not many varieties, some large and some small?—Any number of varieties, but that is a very good crop.
979. Do you consider it a fine specimen?—Indeed I do.
980. Do they grow in New South Wales?—Very well indeed.
981. In quantities?—They are not much planted; we are even behind you in that I am afraid;. but that they grow I have evidence, and grow well, and fruit well, and have done for the last thirty-six years. We had two collections of olives introduced by Mr. Busby and the late Macarthur family, and those plants are mostly still in existence; at all events varieties of them; they were introduced forty, or nearly fifty, years ago, but they do not seem to have taken the fancy of cultivators.
982. Have you any good specimen trees?—Yes.
983. How old?—Forty or fifty years old.
984. What quantity of fruit would one of those large trees bear?—I could not venture to say; but they do not fruit regularly every year in quantity. There is always more or less fruit; in some years the crop is very heavy, and in others very little indeed.
985. Is not that a characteristic of the olive?—I believe it is.
986. Have you no idea, roughly, what quantity, what number of bushels you get from a large tree?—I do not know; I never reckoned. They fall upon the ground, and are raked off. One year, I made oil, very fine oil indeed—the very finest oil, Sir William Denison said, he had ever tasted in his life, and he had been in various olive countries; but I found from a newspaper paragraph from a lecture given by the Italian Archbishop of Western Australia, that the oil, when first made, should be taken into the dark and kept in the dark, and never see the light again, or it becomes rancid.
987. Has it only been made on one or two occasions?—I made it for years, but in a small way. Of course, if it were a crop and largely planted, it would be done on a very large scale.
page 30
Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S.continued, 5th April 1886.
989. Have no olive yards been planted at all?—Not an orchard Old settlers planted individual plants.
990. You spoke of the caper. Is that the caper of commerce?—Yes.
991. The little pickled caper?—Yes. They could be grown here as well as in any part of the world.
992. Is that an annual?—It is; but, by cutting back, it can be made a perennial.
993. And is it grown for commercial purposes?—I am not aware of it. It is not in our colony.
994. Have you any idea what the value of the capers would be from an acre?—I have not.
995. You buy the seed I suppose?—Yes, and I think it is well worth doing.
996. How far apart from seed to seed would you plant them?—About 4 feet apart, or 3 feet.
997. At what season do you plant?—Very early in the season.
998. In the autumn, in fact, the first winter rains?—No, I say, if you planted in this colony, in the end of July.
999. In the spring in fact?—Yes, in the spring.
1000. Do you grow hops in New South Wales?—In some places; in favorable situations. But we are too hot for them.
1001. Are there any hop gardens?—There may be, but I am not aware of them. I know that the plant does not grow freely with us. It runs into leaf.
1002. Have you seen any of our hop gardens here?—No. The only ones I have seen are those near Hobart Town.
1003. On the Derwent and Tamar?—Yes.
1004. You spoke of some other plants, I think, too?—The carob, which is used largely in the south of Europe for feeding mules and horses.
1005. Would that grow here?—Very well indeed.
1006. We should be glad to have a little information especially upon this tree. We have some growing, I think, at Dookie?—Have you seen those?—No, I have not, but I believe many of them are
1007. I believe that leaf came from Dookie?—Yes. That is the carob.
1008. How long does it take to come to perfection?—That depends entirely upon the situation. In a good situation, they might flower in five or six years, but they would certainly take that time. But as it grows older it increases in worth.
1009. Is that very long lived?—Very long indeed.
page 31
Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S.continued, 5th April 1886.
1011. It is a sort of bean, is it not?—Yes. It contains a great deal of sugar, and the children (I have myself done it when I was a boy) bought them and sucked the pods for the sugar it contains.
1012. What quantity of fruit would you get from those?—Upon those points I am not certain.
1013. Does it bear more than one crop of beans in the year?—No, only one crop. It is a peculiar plant. You can never be sure of it. It is not a hermaphrodite flower. It has male flowers and female flowers. In some cases you have splendid crops, and in some cases the trees never bear seeds. In some situations it bears a very large crop indeed. In the south of Europe, some twelve years ago, I saw splendid-crops.
1014. It is grown for cattle food, is it?—Principally for horse food and mule feed.
1015. Do they use the green bean or thresh them?—They pick them from the tree and thresh them.
1016. Can the horses masticate them?—Yes, readily. They are very fond of it.
1017. Are they about as hard as a pea?—About the same consistency.
1018. It is something like a large lupin, is it?—Yes, but much larger than a lupin seed.
1010. A tree, I suppose, would grow several hundred pods?—Yes, I should think a good-sized tree would, guessing at it.
1020. And commences to bear at five or six years?—It does in good situations, and goes on increasing in value as it gets older.
1021. At what distance apart would you plant them?—Certainly not less than 20 feet, and I should say 25.
1022. And while they were growing would you utilize the ground for something else?—In cases of that kind I would plant more thickly, and then cut every other one away.
1023. Is it an evergreen?—Yes, evergreen.
1024. Do you think that oranges, lemons, and limes could grow here?—I think so. You have got the frosts here, and we have not in New South Wales. The oranges grown in New South Wales are principally confined to within the coast range. I have seen in gardens at Goulburn, Bathurst and elsewhere, the orange tree growing well but not bearing so large crops as those nearer the coast.
1025. Why?—I do not know. I suppose it is the peculiarity of the climate that provides so little rain.
1026. But against that there are many parts of America where they grow them inland. Is it not a fact that in California and America the best crops are obtained inland, where they can irrigate them?—Yes.
Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S.continued, 5th April 1886.
1028. Not a scale?—Not a scale; but it is information worth having that, at Seville, when the tree was in full bearing, when I was therein September, the plants—fine magnificent trees—were standing in water; they make ridges so that you can walk through an orangery, and as soon as they have yielded a crop the water is run off. We in New South Wales know nothing of that. We never dreamed of irrigating.
1029. Was the land kept under water for a time?—Kept under water. We could not go on the ground. We were obliged to keep on those ridges in the orangery.
1030. Was the water round the tree?—The water was round the tree. It was a perfect basin.
1031. At what stage was the fruit?—Towards ripening.
1032. How long had the water been upon the ground?—I did publish it, but I forget now how long; but I know that as soon as the crop is taken off the water is allowed to run off.
1033. How is the water applied?—I suppose by irrigation.
1034. Would not it soak into the soil?—No doubt it does, but there must be always a supply to keep the water there.
1035. Some few inches were upon the soil—it was all underwater.—Scarcely that, but you could see the water there; it was thoroughly saturated.
1036. It was kept in a good state of irrigation?—It was kept in a good state of irrigation. We could not get upon the ground. My brother was there with me.
1037. Did the fruit look very large?—Very fine fruit indeed.
1038. Much larger than with you?—No, our oranges are quite as good as those.
1039. Is the orange considered a profitable crop with you?—Very.
1040. Do you grow lemons?—Yes.
1041. A very profitable crop also?—Very.
1042. And the lime?—Not so much of the lime as oranges and lemons. I think the lime might be grown, if they would take the trouble, just as well as the others; but there is not the demand for them that there is for the others.
page 33
Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S.continued, 5th April 1886.
1044. Do I understand you to say that the disease is what is generally known as the Sydney disease?—No; it was a very peculiar disease that in 1867 destroyed almost all the oranges about Sydney.
1045. Killing a ring of bark just below the surface?—Yes.
1046. Is not that generally known as the Sydney orange disease?—It may be; I do not know.
1047. Do I understand you that that has disappeared altogether now?—Altogether.
1048. I think that you have also a list of some fibre plants to submit to us?—Yes, but I should like to mention one plant. In Morocco there is a plant called the Argan tree; it grows in the very poorest grounds, and yields a seed that sheep are exceedingly food of. It grows with us remarkably well, and yields a remarkably large crop of seed, and the sheep are very fond of it?
1049. Is it an annual?—No, a tree.
1050. How long is it before it bears?—Six or seven years. I mention it incidentally, because it is worth introducing into this colony.
1051. Can the seed be obtained here?—No, but any quantity can be obtained from Morocco.
1052. As to the grafting of olives, does not a very great deal depend upon the grafting of the young trees from the old trees?—Yes, of the good sorts; but there is another way of propagating by junks from the trees.
1053. But is it not essential to get the best fruit in the best way that young trees shall be grafted from a well known variety?—Yes, because the fruiting olive is a variety—it is not a species—therefore, if you get plants from seed, you are not sure of getting the variety wanted; you may get a superior kind, but the chances are that you get an inferior one.
1054. But it is essential that every tree should be grafted?—No, not essential; but if you want to get good sorts, as the Chairman said, there are a great number of varieties; if you want to get a good variety, you must graft from a good plant.
1055. Either graft or take cuttings?—Yes, of course.
1056. We had some evidence from home lately in which great stress was laid upon that point—the absolute necessity of grafting every young tree; you get fruit in four or five years that way; whereas, if you do not graft, you have to wait twenty perhaps?—I daresay. It is very general; for instance, the orange tree, if you graft that, it may bear in five years; if you grow a seedling, it may be ten years.
1057. But if you grow from cuttings you get the fruit as quickly as by grafting?—Yes.
1058. And the fruit as good?—Yes. My experience is that you get in some years a good crop of olives; in other years a few only; you can just see the fruit here and there, and the next year you see a mass of fruit.
page 34
Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S.continued, 5th April 1886.
1060. And if you wish to obtain the same variety, would it be at all material whether you graft this olive on to some seedling or whether you take a cutting?—Not a bit.
1061. Does the olive grow from cuttings?—Yes, from what they call junks of large wood.
1062. I thought it required a layer?—It will grow that way; but take junks of wood two or three feet of it into the ground—it must not be a short piece—and lay it a little aslant, not perpendicular.
1063. What size do you call a large piece?—The wood ought not to be less than one and a half to two inches thick.
1064. You have some other lists I think?—Yes, I will not occupy your time, for it is impossible to discuss everything. As to fibre-bearing plants, I should mention that no plant will be profitable that will not yield an annual crop. Therefore, I put down the common flax, New Zealand flax, hemp, grass-cloth, and so on, Crotalaria, grown in India, the Esparto grass, and jute—those might be made to yield in this colony an annual crop every year. The American aloe or agave would require to be planted upon a very large scale to yield an annual crop—it is a very valuable fibre; but these, flax and others mentioned, being annual, except the New Zealand flax, crops of those could be had annually. Of course there are some very fine fibre-bearing trees and shrubs; but the question with me is, could they be made profitable or would they yield an annual crop?
1065. Would flax pay to cultivate, do you think—the New Zealand flax?—The New Zealand flax is an exceedingly useful plant in any property; it always gives the fibre, and always is useful to tie up things, but I do not think it would pay to manufacture from cultivated plants.
1066. It is perennial?—It is perennial; aud is an exceedingly useful plant—I do not know one more so.
1067. But, in view of the very large natural production of New Zealand, it would not pay to cultivate?—I do not think it would.
1068. Does the jute grow with you?—Yes, if sown early, and you 1069. Is it an aunual?—It is an annual.
1070. Grown from seed?—Grown from seed—it is an annual with us.
1071. Does it grow freely?—Very freely.
1072. How high does it grow?—About 5 feet high, or higher than that. It depends a great deal upon the situation.
1073. Have you ever heard of Soovas cotton-tree?—No.
1074. It is grown very largely in Florida?—I do not know it. Is it a tree?
1075. Yes, I think so. It is called "cotton-tree." It seems to be a variety that has been raised very recently. It is the Hibiscus esculentus, the Okro?—That will give you an annual crop. There are two species of hibiscus that will give you a good crop, and yield besides a very good vegetable.
page 35
Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S.continued, 5th April 1886.
1077. Does that require a hot climate?—No, I have seen hemp cultivated with success in England.
1078. Would it grow here, do you think, without irrigation?—I am quite sure of it. Out of a list of plants used for medicinal purposes, I have selected for discussion the poppy and the castor oil out of those I have here, assafætida, colocynth, buchu, sarsaparilla, jalap, scammony, henbane, arnica, rhubarb, and galbanum. Those kinds might be cultivated in this colony, and out of those I think it would be worth while to discuss the poppy and the castor oil, for I am satisfied that both can be made to yield a profitable crop. The others are just questionable. They are all imported as medicines from other countries; but they could be produced here.
1079. Would you grow the poppy for the oil?—Yes.
1080. Or for opium—which?—Or for opium.
1081. Which do you think would be the better?—Certainly for both, for you have to get the poppy seed for both.
1082. Is the oil imported here?—I am not aware that it is produced in Australia in a commercial point of view.
1083. Is the seed largely used?—The seed; that is to say you express the oil, and you get all the preparations made from the poppy—opium, morphia, and laudanum.
1084. Is that diffused through the oil?—The outside of the poppy yields the opium. The seed itself yields the oil.
1085. You spoke of rhubard?—Yes.
1086. That is the medicinal rhubarb?—That is the medicinal rhubarb.
1087. Is that the same variety that we use for culinary purposes?—It is very closely allied. There are various species of the rhubarb from which the rhubarb of commerce is obtained. Some of them are very large; but the Rheum undulatum, very nearly allied to the common rhubarb, also yields a good rhubarb.
1088. And for culinary purposes?—Yes, and the roots for medicine.
1089. But could you use the tops for culinary purposes?—Yes.
1090. Would the roots of the ordinary rhubarb act medicinally?—I have no doubt about it. Then there is the castor oil; an annual crop; a good crop might be made of the different varieties of castor oil.
1091. How many years does the castor oil tree take?—An annual crop can be obtained.
1092. But would it bear the first year?—It would.
1093. The tree is not an annual?—No; in fact, it is a perennial. But the best way to cultivate it would be to make it an annual. Sow the seed early, and get a crop, and it might be ploughed into the ground to enrich it.
1094. You recommend it to be made an annual only?—Yes.
1095. Are there any other plants or trees that you would kindly draw our attention to?—Yes.
Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S.continued, 5th April 1886.
1097. They are growing about the country, and not made use of?—Then there are some dye plants might be usefully cultivated here—the safflower, the madder, the indigo, the fustic, and sumach and then comes the mulberry and the ailantus for silkworms. Then the liquorice is largely imported, and can be grown here as well as in any other part of the world.
1098-9. How is it produced?—It is a running root, running under the ground.
1100. What soil is suitable for its production?—Light sandy soil.
1101. Does it want much moisture?—No.
1102. Is it annual?—No; it is perennial.
1103. But if you obtain some of the roots, would they yield produce the first year?—Yes. If you put a plant into light sandy soil it yields a crop the first year.
1104. Are the roots squeezed or boiled to get the juice?—I think they are simply dried.
1105. How is the property of the root extracted?—I think it is made a sort of demulcent. I am not sure, but it is largely used I know.
1106. Those black sticks that we buy?—That is an extract from it.
1107. How is that extract got, do you know?—I do not know.
1108. Is the root used itself medicinally?—Yes. Then there is the sunflower, and tobacco, and cotton; and then there is the mustard and rape, all of which are imported; there is no country more suitable for the cultivation of those plants than this country.
1109. Would not the aphis injure the rape?—I pay very little attention to aphis. For some years the whole tribe of the Cruciferæ, to which those latter plants belong, were attacked by aphis; but of late years we have not had any aphis in our country.
1110. Has tobacco made any strides in New South Wales?—Yes, it is very largely cultivated indeed.
1111. Is it increasing?—It is.
1112. Is the cultivation prosecuted generally by the Chinese?—NO; the Chinese do not, I think, cultivate much tobacco. They go in more for culinary cultivation.
1113. Have you a large protection upon it?—We have protection to the extent of two shillings and sixpence per pound for manufactured, and one shilling for leaf.
1114-5. Have you any excise in the manufacture of it?—Yes, we is one shilling per pound.
1116. Is it subject to any disease?—I am not aware of any.
1117. What parts in New South Wales does it grow upon chiefly?—All the way up the Hunter. In fact it is very generally cultivates as a part of a crop upon the farms, particularly within the coast range but it will grow beyond the coast range very well indeed.
here, I bave taken a great deal of trouble to go through it, Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S.continued, 5th April 1886.
1119. Do you grow the tea plant too?—Yes; but there again, although it will exist in various parts of Victoria, I am apprehensive it would not prove a profitable crop. That is my impression.
1120. Have you been to the State nursery at Macedon?—I have.
1121. Have you seen the tea plants there?—About three years ago I think.
1122. Do you consider them good plants?—They were healthy plants, but I do not think an ordinary cultivator could make it a profitable crop.
1123. For what reason?—In the first place the labour is too much, but the principal reason is that our climate is too dry for it. We have heat enough, but not moisture enough.
1124. Do you think irrigation would make it succeed?—I do not think so. You must have a more moist atmosphere.
1125. The rainfall is pretty heavy at Macedon?—But you have not a moist atmosphere. But in Assam there is a very moist atmosphere. That is merely my impression, of course.
1126. Have you any memorandum with regard to any other plants?—The grasses and plants used have nothing very remarkable in them. I have mentioned here, independent of the English grasses and our native grasses, or rather fodder plants, because there is a very general idea that grasses include all fodder plants, which I do not mean. When a man speaks to me of grass, of course I understand him to speak of graminaceous plants, not fodder plants. But, in addition to what is usually produced, there are two or three that I think could be grown profitably; for instance, French honeysuckle, saintfoin, and lucerne, of course we know. And then the true buffalo grass, not what is called the buffalo grass here, because that is only called so from having been planted in Buffalo Creek, near Sydney, when it was first introduced. But the true buffalo grass is said to be very valuable, botanically called Tripsacum. I have very little information to give upon those matters. No doubt the French honeysuckle and saintfoin might be made very profitable green crops here.
1127. How is it grown?—Just as a usual crop.
1128. From seed?—From seed.
1129. An annual?—An annual. By keeping it down it can be made a perennial, by cutting it before it flowers.
1130. What is the seed like?—It is a pea-flowering plant. Both the saintfoin and the French honeysuckle are pea-flowering plants.
1131. Something like tares?—No, higher than that.
Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S.continued, 5th April 1886.
1133. Do they grow more vigorously than the ordinary walnut?—They stand our climate a great deal better than the common walnut.
1134. Is the American walnut that wood that we see used for cabinet-making?—Yes.
1135. Is not that made from the tree that hears the fruit?—It is made from Juglans nigra and cinerea as well as from regia.
1136. They do not bear nuts?—Yes, you can eat the fruit of the former kinds, but it is not equal to the common walnut.
1137. It is not so large?—No.
1138. How many years does it take to come to any size?—They fruit in about six or seven years.
1139. I speak now of the timber?—Certainly not leas than from 25 to 30 years to make a good timber tree.
1140. Is this the walnut that is grown in England for timber?—No, that is the Juglans regia—the common walnut. Then, showing the peculiarity of our climate, the common ash simply exist with us; but some species of the American ash grow remarkably well, and will become very good timber trees. I was rather surprised at the success of those American ashes. I got some as an experiment, and they grew splendidly.
1141. Is the American walnut a native of America?—Yes.
1142. Has it been introduced into England?—I do not know. I suppose it has; but I have had it for the last 25 or 30 years.
1143. Does it grow more quickly than the ordinary walnut?—Very much more so.
1144. I suppose much thicker in the leaf?—No, it is a thinner leaf-much thinner; and it does not form such a shady tree as the common walnut. Then there are the various species of Pinus which are planted largely here; but other pines might be introduced, which might be more profitable for their timber than these are.
1145. What pines do you allude to?—The best lumber pines will not succeed here. Pinus Lambertiana and Abies Douglassii do not do well with us in New South Wales; whether they would do in Victoria I cannot say. They exist with us and that is all. I have a paant of Lambertiana, one of the best pines in America, and I have had it 30 years, and it is not more than 8 feet high now.
1146. I think it dies here pretty rapidly?
1147. Mr. Guilfoyle.—That is Lambert's cypress, that dies quickly. But Lambert's pine is not a cypress.
could be grown just as well, and on every estate they Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S.continued, 5th April 1886.
1149. They require swampy ground, do not they?—No; they would grow on ordinary land. The common basket willow prefers moisture, but it is not necessary; but the golden osier will grow on very dry ground.
1150. Will the basket willow, as it is called, grow in water?—Almost in water.
1151. You could not get it to strike in water in the first instance?—I do not think so. You will see its roots extending down to water, but I never saw it planted in water. But it is a very useful one.
1152. Is the ordinary weeping willow the tree from which the charcoal for powder is obtained?—Any willow will give you powder charcoal, but it is made from the weeping willow, because it is the quickest growing willow. Then I recommend very strongly the introduction of the redwood of America—the Taxodium.
1153. Does it grow pretty rapidly?—Very rapidly. Then the catalpa is strongly recommended by the Americans for timber, but I cannot say from my experience that they are going to be a great success. They might succeed very much better in this colony than in New South Wales; and then there are our common gums. I am quite sure from what I have seen, both in this country and New Zealand, that the gum may be made to yield a good profit in from 25 to 30 years. I may just state a fact : I made inquiry before I came to this country, on behalf of the Government, as to the actual profit arising from the cultivation of the common larch, and by thinning it out at nine years, and thinning it out at fifteen years, and thinning it out at twenty years, at the end of thirty years it yielded a larger profit per acre than if the ground had been in cultivation. I am satisfied that the red gum and blue gum, if properly planted and looked after, would, at the expiration of 25 to 30 years, yield as good a return as larches do in the old country; but it must be done systematically, and thinned out properly, because you must plant close in the first instance to get them to grow straight; the blue gum invariably grows straight, but the red gum does not.
1154. What distance do you recommend to begin with?—10,20, and 30 feet—that is, plant out at 10 feet, and thin out to 20, and leave the trees at 30 feet apart to produce timber.
1155. Would you sow the seed broadcast in the first instance?—I prefer it. I have made the experiment, and it is a great mistake to suppose that transplanting gums can be a success; with me it has been a failure. I therefore recommend the preparation of the ground and sow the seeds where they are to grow—leave the strongest where they are to grow. That is my experience, and I am sure I am right in that. I have tried transplanting from the nursery. If you transplant from the nursery you must water them and look after them to get them established, but if you sow the seed where they are to grow, they are no trouble after the first thinning out.
Charles Moore, Esq. F.L.S.continued, 5th April 1886.
1157. The red gum would not do to plant in the same soil as the blue gum, would it?—The blue gum is the most rapid grower, but I take it that if the ground were fairly prepared by ploughing and harrowing either gum would grow well.
1158. The red gum likes the flatter and moister ground?—No doubt, but the danger is that after a certain time the blue gum goes at the top with us. I do not know whether it does so here. We cannot rely upon the blue gum of Tasmania growing at all well for more than six or seven years—it goes at the top; but I saw in New Zealand the blue gum very fine timber trees. It is not planted there apparently for timber purposes, but for ornamental purposes. You see it in hedge rows and elsewhere, but I am sure in New Zealand it will yield in 25 to 30 years a good and useful timber, and so 1 think it will in this country.
1159. What are your views upon wattles?—They are a very profitable crop, indeed. You can sow wattles upon the ground aud reap a crop from them upon ground that would be of very little use for any other purpose. Just as I recommend the olive aud the carob. I have those lists, but I do not think it is worth occupying the time of the Commissioners as others have to be examined, but if there are any questions you desire to be put I shall be very glad to answer them.
1160. Will you kindly read the lists to us?—There is the Bermuda cedar, Virginian cedar, Carya porcina, Carya alba, Juglans cineres, Juglans nigra, Juglans regia, Fraxinus species, American; Pinus, various species, useful for their timbers; Salix, various species, useful for basket-making. Quercus, cork oak, and other species, good for timber. The cork oak, that, by the way, is a thing that should be largely plantedin these colonies.
1161. For the cork or the timber?—For the cork; and it is a beautiful and shady tree. I am not aware that the timber is of any value. And then there is one of our native trees, Grevillea robusta, a valuable tree, because it splits so readily, and is useful for many purposes; for tallow casks it is very valuable. It is too porous for spirit casks. I will leave these lists with the secretary, and with regard to the information necessary to be supplied as to the quantity to be produced, I shall be glad to supply that from authentic sources when the evidence is sent to me. I think I have mentioned the plants that are most suitable to your colony.
The witness withdrew.
Francis Abbott examined.
Francis Abbott, 5th April 1886.
1163. You have had experience, of course, in testing the suitability of your colony for the production of what we may call novel plants?—I have had, generally, experience in plants, but I have not gone into them for commercial purposes.
1164. I suppose you have specimen plants?—Yes.
1165. Many of those referred to by Mr. Moore?—Yes, a great many.
1166. Do you cultivate gram, millet, or lentils commercially?—We have done, to a small extent. They will grow there, but I do not think they would be a commercial success.
1167. Do olives grow with you?—Yes, they grow, but they fruit very precariously; some seasons we get a heavy crop, and other seasons none at all.
1168. Have you ever manufactured oil?—No, never.
1169. Is the fruit allowed to go to waste?—It is allowed to go to waste.
1170. Do you think this colony well suited for their growth?—I should think so, upon the hill side and poor grounds. I imagine your colony is well suited to cultivate the olive.
1171. Do you think that the colony is well suited to the cultivation of the grains the chairman has referred to?—I think so. I have no doubt we ourselves, if the matter was taken in hand, could make a success of many of them.
1172. Are your gardens used merely for experimental purposes, or for ornamental purposes?—More as a botanic garden, but we introduce, of course, all plants likely to be useful to the colony.
1173. Have you grown any of the flaxes referred to by Mr. Moore?—We have grown a few roots at a time, but not for commercial purposes; but I have no doubt it would be a great benefit to Victoria to take them largely into cultivation.
1174. Do you think they would grow with us?—I am sure of it.
1175. Has the Government of Tasmania ever offered any bonus for the production of those new plants?—None at all.
1176. Have you grown any tobacco?—It used to be grown for sheep-washing purposes—not for commercial purposes.
1177. Is it not now grown?—No; other substances have come into use for the destruction of scab, and, of course, tobacco has given way.
1178. Have you travelled in this colony much?—Yes; during the last fortnight I have been about a good deal at Sandhurst and Ballarat and other places.
1179. Has it struck you that any plant in particular could be grown here with profit now not cultivated here?—Mr. C. Moore has already named, I think, pretty nearly all the plants that could be cultivated. I imagine the flax and hemp ought to succeed well in Victoria, and mustard also.
page 42
Francis Abbott, continued. 5th April 1886.
1181. It is cultivated, I suppose, in large fields?—No; it never has been in cultivation in fields—just an experimental patch in the gardens
1182. That has succeeded very well?—Yes, it succeeded very well
1183. Mr. C.Moore referred to the growth of walnuts—have you the American walnut growing?—We have not to any great extent. We have the black walnut fruiting this season.
1184. Is that the American walnut?—Yes.
1185. Does the fruit grow with you nearly as large as the other?—It is about the same size, but there is more shell and not so much kernel
1186. It is more elongated, is it not, than the other fruit?—No; of course the ordinary walnuts vary very much in shape—it is about the same shape, rather rounder I think if anything.
1187. Do you grow tobacco?—Not to any extent; it has been grown for sheep-washing purposes.
1188. You have never manufactured any?—No; we have attempted it, and with pretty good success, but we have not grown it for any commercial object.
1189. Is there any plant grown with you other than the ordinary plants and grain that we grow here to which you could direct our attention as being suitable to this colony?—I do not know that there is any that has not been mentioned by Mr. Moore, with the exception of the Pentzia virgata, the sheep plant of the Cape. I think more attention might be given to that than it has hitherto received, because it is a plant that is adaptable to dry localities and will not thrive in a wet locality, and yields a good deal of herbage which the sheep are very fond of; and the mutton from the Pentzia districts always brings a higher price than any other.
1190. Have you see the plant growing in this colony?—I have not, but I believe it is in the colony.
1191. Is it propagated from seed?—Either seed or cuttings; and it is a plant that trails along the ground and roots at every joint, and could be easily propagated by division.
1192. Is it like a grass?—No, it is more like a herb, like one of the compound aster plants.
1193. How could it be introduced to the pastures here?—It would take, of course, some little trouble to introduce the plant, but when once introduced it would look after itself, for its habit of crawling along the ground and rooting at every joint would protect it from destruction.
1194. It prefers a dry climate?—Yes; in fact it will not succeed in a wet climate.
1195. Supposing now a selector wished to introduce it, how could be go to work?—He could get either seeds or cuttings or divisions of the plant, and propagate from that.
1196. If he were to sow the seed very thinly over the the selection, would he be likely to get it that way?—I do not consider it would be a safe way.
page 43
Francis Abbott, continued, 5th April 1886.
1198. You said that the mutton from the district where the herb grows brought more money than from other places—how did the farmers there get it?—It is a native to that district. It is at the Cape of Good Hope.
1199. Have not you introduced it to your colony?—We have it, but it has not been introduced upon the runs. It has not been cultivated with a view to fattening stock.
1200. Could small quantities of it be supplied from your colony?—Yes, I could supply small quantities of it, or seed.
1201. By the bushel?—Not by the bushel; we have not grown it to that extent.
1202. What is the seed like?—Very fine seed, something like small grass seed.
1203. Have you grown any from seed?—Yes, I raised it from seed.
1204. What is the commercial value of the seed?—I cannot say.
1205. At what time of the year would you sow it?—At any season, either now or early in the spring.
1206. Does it require much moisture to germinate?—Just ordinary, such as all small seeds require.
1207. Do you think it is seed that would germinate upon the surface?—I think not—it is too fine. Of course, if you sow it naturally upon the surface before rains, it would become covered, but when the seed can be obtained only in small quantities, I think the safer plan would be to raise it in boxes and transplant.
1208. Does it seed itself upon the ground—if you were to plant say a plant on every two or three rods of a field, would it spread and the seed from it so cover the ground?—I cannot speak to that from experiment, but I should imagine it would if the district suited the plant. No doubt nature provides for the growth of the seeds.
1209. Are you making any effort to introduce it to the dry parts of your colony?—I intend to do so.
1210. Does it yield much fodder or is it very rich in fattening properties?—It would yield a good deal of fodder; it covers the ground, and as fast as it is eaten dowu it springs up again.
1211. Does it cover the ground?—Yes.
1212. Will it stand grazing?—Yes.
1213. Grazing would not kill it?—Grazing would not kill it.
1214. It is not related to the Cape weed?—No. Of course seed could be obtained from the Cape in large quantities.
1215. It is not injurious to the soil is it?—No.
1216. Can you easily destroy it by ploughing?—Yes, easily because it does not strike deep into the soil—it runs more upon the surface, rooting as it goes.
1217. But it does not strike a root under the soil?—No, no underground stems to any extent.
1218. Is that a grass you would recommend for a dry climate?—It is not strictly a grass, it is a fodder plant. It is one that I think attention ought to be paid to, because I think it would suit the colony very well.
page 44
Francis Abbott, continued, 5th April 1886.
1220. Have any of the sheep farmers examined it and what do they think of it, if they have seen it?—I have not heard any of the reports. It is grown, I believe, to a small extent, in one or two parts of the island, but I have not heard what is thought of it but it? reputation at the Cape is well known.
1221. Do you agree with Mr. Moore's views upon the subject of the fruits suitable to this colony?—Yes, I think so. Nothing struck me that I would differ from him upcu at all.
1222. You grow fruit extensively in Tasmania?—Yes, the ordinary
1223. Do you adopt any method of preserving and drying them?—No, nothing beyond ordinary jam-making at present.
1224. Have you not gone into drying apples upon the American system?—No, not at present; but no doubt it will have to come, for the markets get glutted now, and there is no outlet for them.
1225. Have the orchards there gone into cider-making at all?—Not lately. There does not appear to be much demand for cider.
1226. It has been tried?—It has been made.
1227. Is the production of fruit now in excess of the demand?—It has been the last season or two. The small fruits, raspberries, this year have been allowed to rot upon the orchards, because they would not pay.
1228. What is the commercial value of a hundred-weight of raspberries?—We are giving from ¾d. to 1¼d. a pound for them.
1229. I should think they would want a very large proportion of that to pick them?—That is just it. It used to cost fd. a pound to pick them, and therefore this year they were allowed to drop from the canes in large wuantities.
1230. Is it the same with currants and gooseberries?—Yes. This season they are all at a discount—and plums were two or three shillings a bushel—you could not get much more.
1231. Were they saleable at that price?—Yes, any quantity at 2s & bushel if they were in good condition, but they would only take the best fruit for that.
1232. For jam-making?—For jam-making.
1233. Have you any idea what number of bushels an acre would yield?—It is almost impossible to say, for the crop varies so much, according to the soil and locality, but you might get from 50 to 200 bushels to the acre, according to the age of the trees and the quality of the soil.
1234. Is there an increase in the area now being put under fruit?—In fruit trees there has been a great increase in the last few years.
1235. And are the older orchards being destroyed?—Many of them—many, no doubt, will he destroyed now on account of the codlin moth that has got such a hold upon them, and I do not think it is possible to clear some orchards.
1236. Are not you putting the Act in force?—It is a dead letter at present. Several districts have declared themselves to be clean districts, but no action has been taken in reference to the others.
page 45
Francis Abbott, continued, 5th April 1886.
1238. What is it worth per acre, say in a good season, on a line of railway?—You mean the purchase value?
1239. Yes?—That varies very much indeed—from £50 to £200 an acre for good orchard ground.
1240. Can you find persons to purchase ground at £200 an acre to grow fruit?—Not fresh unbroken laud—I was speaking of an orchard.
1241. Orchard land—what is that worth?—That would be about £50 an acre, I suppose, near a line of railway.
1242. I suppose those would be the rich bottoms, valleys, and so on?—Yes; not exactly bottoms, but rich lull sides, with slight undulations.
1243. Are you still planting fresh areas every year?—At present they have been planting largely.
1244. Do you think that this colony, or portions of it, is as suitable for growing fruits as Tasmania?—No doubt there are portions of it that would be, but, speaking generally, I imagine the hot winds would interfere very much with the production of fruits.
1245. Have you no hot winds in Tasmania?—We have a few, very slight.
1246. Do you think this colony is well adapted for the growth of raisin grapes?—Yes, I think so.
1247. And oranges, and lemons, and citrons?—I cannot speak much of oranges and lemons, but I imagine upon the lighter soils the oranges and lemons would do well where they have sufficient moisture.
1248. If YOU were going to engage in the cultivation of fruits in this colony, what part would you go to?—I am not sufficiently acquainted with the colony to say.
1249. Do you grow grapes for wine?—Not for wine, no.
1250. Only for fruit?—Only for fruit.
1251. Is the area under vines increasing?—I do not think so. With the exception of Maria Island, which has been taken up by Mr. D. A. G. Bernacchi, I do not know of any increase.
1252. Are they planting the vineyards there?—Yes, I believe the vineyards.
1253. Are there any planted now?—Yes, I believe he has planted a good many thousands this last season.
1254. Have you seen them?—I have not seen them, but from report. I believe they are doing very well.
1255. What timber trees would you recommend the introduction of here?—I have no doubt that the redwood of America would do very well, but I should imagine it would be upon the moister grounds; naturally, I think it grows in swamps in America, and upon the alluvial flats.
1256. Something the same as our red gum?—I should think so. The black walnut, no doubt, would yield very superior timber, but it would take some time to mature it. Speaking of my own plant, we have had it, I suppose, thirty years, and it is not more than 25 feet high at the present time.
page 46
Francis Abbott, continued, 5th April 1886.
1258. It has a very small growth for that time, has it not; do you consider it a good growth?—Only a moderate growth.
1259. What do you think of the catalpa?—I have no doubt it would do very well on the railway cuttings in many places, and might eventually be utilized for sleepers. It is spoken of very much in America for that purpose.
1260. It is stated that they are planting catalpa along the railway lines to supply sleepers for the future?—Yes; it grows very rapidly especially the variety speciosa. I have that. The old variety did not stand long with us. It died out in about thirty years. The speciosa appears to be hardier in constitution and greater in rapidity of growth.
1261. Do you think it would be desirable to plant the catalpa along our railway lines?—I think so.
1262. Do you know any other timber that would be more suitable for that purpose than the catalpa?—No, I think not.
1263. Would that be superior to red gum?—I have not had much experience with red gum, but catalpa is said to be almost everlasting, It is soft somewhat, very rapid in growth, and used as posts it is said to stand an indefinite period.
1264. What is your view with reference to wattles?—I think it should be cultivated in every available space you have, railway cuttings and ground that is not utilized for other purposes.
1265. Do you think it is a valuable crop to any farmer?—I have not the shadow of a doubt about it; it comes on in a very short period, and there is always a revenue from them.
1266. How would you cultivate them?—I would just soak the seed and cast them broadcast upon the ground.
1267. Upon ploughed ground?—Upon ploughed ground.
1268. When would you thin them out?—That depends upon the size of the plants; as soon as they are large enough to handle.
1269. You would thin out early?—Comparatively early.
1270. To what distance apart?—To 10 feet apart.
1271. Some persons advocate allowing the wattles to grow a foot apart, or even more thickly for some years; what do you think of that?—If the timber or bark can be utilised in any way, which no doubt it can, of course upon grounds that would carry the trees it would be desirable, not otherwise; some grounds might not carry such a crop.it might be too dry for such a close crop as that.
1272. I suppose the idea there is to prevent spreading and get them straight up?—Yes.
1273. There might be a double object, one object being to keepdonn the grass so that the trees might not be destroyed with fire?—Yes; it might be.
1274. Have you cultivated any wattles in your colony at all?—No; we have so many naturally, we have had no need to do it; hut the destruction is so great we shall have to do it before long.
1275. Is not a foot or 2 feet apart too thick for the trees to stand?—The trees could not attain any great size at that distance apart.
page 47
Francis Abbott, continued, 5th April 1886.
1277. It has been said that certain trees take the lead, and that though they are somewhat thick, the smaller trees would remain and get age, and when the larger ones were removed they would come up in turn; what do you think of that?—They might do that, but I imagine it would have a tendency to stunt the smaller trees.
1278. It would be better you think to have them tolerably thick to run them up?—I should adopt that course myself, and then thin them out once or twice.
1279. The wattle likes plenty of moisture, consequently it would need to be a wet climate?—Yes, but not exceedingly so, only a moderate amount.
1280. Twenty to 30 inches at least?—Say from 18 to 20 inches.
1281. Does it strike you that any special plant might be cultivated here with advantage other than those ordinarily cultivated?—I do not know of any but such as have already been referred to by Mr. Moore; he almost cut the ground from under my feet.
The witness withdrew,