Second Day.—Friday, 6th September 1895.

Debate resumed on Mr. Begg's motion, "That, in order to give confidence to buyers, and to secure as far as possible uniformity in the quality of the meat exported, it is desirable that the freezing companies in the colony should agree to a uniform system of grading."

Mr. Begg said he was quite agreeable that the word "uniform" should be struck out of his motion, provided it met with the views of others.

Mr. Buddo asked if the grading was to take place from one end of the colony to the other.

Mr. Begg said the grading should take place at the freezing-works. It would be desirable if they could get one uniform system for the South Island, and another uniform system for the North Island, so that in buying sheep the buyers would be able to get A and B grades. Probably, the best plan would be for the North and South Island companies to agree upon the subject themselves. He was quite willing to allow his motion to be amended.

Mr. Bidwill said he would like to take exception to a sweeping remark made the previous day by Mr. Nelson, to the effect that North Island mutton was the worst in the world. To a certain extent, the Chairman had backed Mr. Nelson up in his remark.

The Chairman: No.

Mr. Bidwill said to a certain extent the Chairman had done so. He had not said it was the worst in the world, but that the North Island, as compared with that of the South, was inferior to a great extent. A remark of that sort coming from Mr. Nelson, who was looked upon as knowing as much about the freezing business as anyone in the colony, would result in the sheepfarmers of the North Island getting very few orders c.i.f., and would carry very great weight outside the colony. The Gear Meat Company had paid a dividend of 10 per cent., and carried forward a large amount every year since it started, mainly from its freezing business, and that company had traded entirely in North Island sheep. A little while ago Mr. Nelson had been asked at Woodville what made the difference in price between Wellington and Canterbury mutton, and had replied that it was simply a trade term, and that he had plenty of Canterbury mutton bred in Hawke's Bay, If Mr. Nelson had such an objection to North Island mutton, why had he put up so many works—at Porangahou, Woodville, and other places? He (Mr. Bidwill) said the opinion he held before the Conference met, and which was intensified now, page 37 was that we must, in the North Island, breed for wool, and ignore mutton. The cost of rearing young sheep was very great in the North Island, the mortality being very heavy; and, when they were bred up to a good .weight, nothing was practically got for them in London, the difference in price when sold in New Zealand being 4s. to 5s. less than was obtained for sheep in the South Island. A general feeling was growing in the North Island that the sheepowners must grow more for wool, and not for mutton; and if that feeling gained ground it would be a disastrous thing for the North Island. The system of grading they were now working under resulted in two terms being known to the world—the Wellington grade and the Canterbury grade, Wellington mutton being the second class and Canterbury first class.

Mr. Nelson said he looked upon the present discussion as the most valuable that could be introduced. Some of those present might have thought that his remark about the North Island mutton being the worst in the world was a hasty one; but he made the assertion careful ly5 intentionally, and thoughtfully. He would reply to Mr. Bid will's remarks in the order they were given. First of all, that gentleman had referred to the effect his (Mr. Nelsons) assertion would have on the world, and especially Loudon. Unfortunately, it was the belief in this colony that the whole world had got its eyes on New Zealand, and that he and every other man in the colony was the most important man on the earth's surface. The great bulk of our troubles arose from this infernal conceit we had for ourselves. As a matter of fact, he did not think there were half a dozen people at Home, outside of his own firm, who knew that there was such a man as W. Nelson., His assertion, even if it did reach people in the trade, would not affect the London market at all. The Home buyers, if they saw a good sheep, would pay a good price for it, and if they saw a bad sheep they would not.

Mr. Bidwell: The point is "c.i.f."

Mr. Nelson said that would not make any difference. The next point was with regard to the success of the Gear Company, trailing with North Island sheep. The success of that company was due to the good management, not to buying cheap sheep, for he had bought sheep for less money than was paid for them by the Wellington companies, and had lost money. The question put to him at the Woodville Farmers' Club dinner was, whether the cable messages constantly arriving from London in reference to quotations were accurate or not. His reply had been that the cable agent had adopted those terms to signify the quality of all mutton sent from the colony, Canterbury meaning first class and Wellington second class. That explanation of what he had said was very different to that which had been attributed to him, and for which he was not responsible. Steps had been taken to have these terms altered, and they had been altered. As to Mr. Bid will's astonishment that a man with his (Mr. Nelson's) knowledge should open works in the North Island, when he believed the worst sheep for mutton were grown there; he had to reply that, twelve years ago he was supremely ignorant of the fact that the North Island had the worst sheep in the world, He had been learning since that time, and had he known as much about freezing then as he knew to-day he would not have had the pleasure of meeting the Conference, because he would not have been there. He did not think Mr. Bid will should take exception to what had been said because it was unpalatable; and if he (Mr. Nelson) could induce the North Island sheep-farmers to send Home the best mutton in the world by improving their breed of sheep he would have done good service to the community. He had never known page 38 any one in England or elsewhere say that Lincoln sheep were the best for mutton. It was a good wool sheep, and farmers in the North Island had admittedly gone in for the wool; but if they went for the wool they must expect to grow bad mutton, Although South Island mutton was the best in the colony, it had a lot of very bad mutton. There was a general impression that all Canterbury mutton was good; but he knew from absolute experience that it was not so good as South Island people would like others to believe. It was only the sheep that had been properly bred there that was so good. He did not want any one to feel hurt about his remarks as to bad mutton. He wanted the Conference to believe that there was something in what he had said, for his remarks were too true rather than inaccurate.

Mr. Martin said this question was of vital importance to the North Island. The theory that as good mutton could not be grown in the North Island as in the South was quite fallacious, and not to be believed for a moment. The true reason was want of open markets. If the freezing companies adopted a proper system of grading, this would be rectified, He hoped Mr. Begg would not make the amendment proposed. The North Island would then grow for No, 1 class mutton, and would get the benefit.

Mr. Buddo said he dissented from the motion. A better plan was wanted, in order to let the buyer know that he was getting what he paid for. The Conference was called to see if they could not get a better market for their produce. He was not prepared to go into a discussion as to whether there was any difference between the two classes of sheep grown in the North and in the South. The motion meant that the grading was to take place at the various freezing-works. He was strongly opposed to that. It would be found to work unsatisfactorily, considering the necessities of the freezing companies. The grading should be done in London, and steps should be taken to remedy the unloading into barges at the ship's side, where these barges had to he until they had loaded up with one particular brand. That was where the trouble lay. If they had the storage at the docks the ships would get rid of the sheep at once, ant, the sheep would not lay soaking in the sun until the whole of a particular brand was taken out of a vessel. If the grading was done at the other end, people there could take into consideration the quality and everything else. The Conference should get away from a parish feeling in the matter, and decide that the grading should be done irrespective of where the sheep were grown.

Mr. Cuthbertson said he thoroughly coincided with Mr. Begg's proposal. It was absolutely essential, in his opinion—and he spoke from a close experience of the trade in the South Island—that some improved system of grading should be adopted. The reason for this had been made apparent by the assertions of several speakers at the Conference, and by practical experience, that New Zealand mutton had deteriorated in quality from what it was some years ago. It was not because the colony could not breed a good quality of meat, because it was perfectly well known that large numbers of suitable sheep were still sent to the London market. It was unfortunately due to the large number of freezing companies, which had permitted a relaxation in the standard to grow up. He thought any interference on the part of the Government was to be deprecated, but ventured to think that it might have come to that in the long run if some agreement were not arrived at amongst those specially interested, The difficulty arose in districts where the capacity of the freezing works was somewhat greater than the supply of sheep, and it would continue to exist so long as there was no responsible body to prevent inferior grades of page 39 sheep being accepted. One speaker had said this object might be readily attained by the appointment of managers of freezing companies as Government inspectors; but that would scarcely work. The manager in almost every case would, by reason of his qualifications, be most suitable for the office, but he was the servant of the directors. It sometimes happened that sheep that were not up to the standard were passed by the manager because they were the property of particular persons, and he had known himself a case where a manager had received direct instructions from his superior officer to pass certain sheep. Therefore, if the system was not unproved it might be found necessary, as in che case of the dairying industry, to insist upon having Government inspection. He approved most heartily of Mr. Begg's proposal, and thought that unless the Conference put in a concrete form the views he had enunciated it would fail in the object for which it had met. Mr. Begg's motion might be supplemented by the creation of a Federal Council, as providing the surest way of obtaining what was wanted We should have two Councils—one for each Island, composed of delegates from the freezing companies and an equal number of delegates from the Agricultural and Pastoral Associations, to carry out the suggestions which have been made.

Mr. Coleman Phillips said he agreed with a great deal of what the previous speaker had said, but thought it would be detrimental to the industry to have two Councils. New Zealand mutton had become known in England as New Zealand mutton. The people in both Islands did not want to grade their stock as North Island or South Island mutton. There should be one Executive Council for both Islands, with a committee for each. He hoped Mr. Nelson would withdraw his remark that the sheep in the North Island were the worst in the world. No doubt the remark was intended to induce the North Island sheepfarmers to improve their sheep, or lie must have forgotten that the Argentine and Cape sheep were not equal to North Island sheep. In discussing this question of grading, they had overlooked the fact that the Government must appoint the inspectora to comply with the request of the English Government. The grading could hardly be done in England, because a lot of the sheep were going to Manchester and other places as well as to London, and their endeavour was to distribute the sheep as much as possible.

Mr. Overtoil said he would like to support the motion proposed by Mr. Begg. Grading was adopted in some of the works at present, and if it were adopted in all it would have a good effect-Although he came from the South Island he could not help thinking Mr. Nelson's remark unfair. If it did not affect the South Island directly it must do so indirectly. Instead of condemning the North Island sheep as he had done——

The Chairman said what he understood Mr. Nelson to say was that the North Island sheepfarmers were breeding sheep that were the worst in the world for mutton.

Voices: No, no.

Mr. Nelson said that was what he intended to convoy.

Sir John Hall said he had taken the words down. They were that the North Island mutton was the worst in the world.

Mr. Overton said if Mr. Nelson induced the North Island breeders to pay more attention to their sheep it would be better. If the same attention was paid to the sheep in the North as was paid in the South they would find that the long-woolled sheep produced prime mutton. While in England he had visited Smithfield market, and had told a salesman that he wanted to take some Lincoln sheep out, and was advised not to touch them. Later they saw some pure-bred Lincoln hoggets in the stall, and page 40 pointed them out to his friend, but the salesmen said they were no such thing—they were Downs. He (Mr. Overton) recognised the sheep as his own, and said they were his Lincoln hoggets, but the man persisted. The Be averaged 741b+i and were sixteen months old. The man admitted they were the best lot in the market, and they made the highest price that day. Mr. Nelson had said that individuals from New Zealand were not known in the London market, but lie had been quite astonished to find how well they were known, and to hear remarks that So-and-so always sent good meat. He believed Mr. Nelson's remark would have a bad effect if not withdrawn. He (Mr. Overton) was a great believer in wool, and thought the people of New Zealand should be induced to grow for wool as wool as for mutton, as it was easy to produce both on the same sheep.

Mr. Nelson said he did not agree with Mr. Buddo that the only object the Conference should have was to work on certain lines. As to the conduct of the trade, quite as good a purpose would be served by discussing questions of this kind as any other, A great deal of trouble had been caused by people having imperfect knowledge. If they could remove the evil by so simple a method they should do so. Mr. Overton Over too had expressed a hope that he (Mr. Nelson) would withdraw his remark about the North Island sheep. It was rather a hard thing to ask a man to write himself down a fool when he was under the comfortable knowledge, for the moment at any rate, that he was not One was quite sufficiently often a fool, and had to admit it, and, therefore, did not like to admit "it when he was right. Mr. Overton had unwittingly all the time been giving proof why the North Island mutton was the worst in the world. He had said that if the North Island grew their Lincolns as they did in the South then their mutton would be as good. If their mutton was as good as the South Island mutton now, why should they be induced to improve it to make it as good? In the South they fed their sheep in the winter, and improved on different lines. He (Mr. Nelson) had never heard any one suggest that Lincoln sheep were the best mutton in the world. Mr. Overton had said that if the North Island sheep were fed in the same way as in the South, then the mutton would be as good as that in the South; so that they were either notas good already, or there would be no necessity to improve them. He had said he founded his belief on his hoggets weighing 741b. at sixteen months old. He (Mr. Nelson) was quite prepared to admit that if every sheep in the North Island could be brought up to 741b, in sixteen months we should have nothing to complain of; but that was not done, Such a thing had been seen, and probably some man might be produced to say he had done it; bat that would prove nothing. He had said what he had to induce the North Island growers to make their sheep the best mutton in the world. It rested with the sheepowners to say whether they would send Home bad sheep or good sheep, and if they sent away young sheep weighing 741b., neither he nor any one else would have anything to complain of. Providence had so made the North Island that the sheepowners could worry through the year without artificial feeding, which meant that at some time or other the sheep suffered from want of feed and went back. That happened to 90 per cent, of the flock. There were farmera who did their work as well as it could possibly be done, but the average run of them did not. We had Lincolns weighing 451b. tong-woolled four-tooth animals, and could any one say that they made the best mutton in the world, or even good mutton ? He fondly hoped that Mr. Bidwill was not correct in his belief that people were going to breed for wool alone, but hoped they would see the necessity for improving their sheep. It page 41 was being now realised to the fullest extent, and the disaster of last year had brought it before everybody prominently. He wanted all to believe that the trouble was not due to London, but to the colony. Canterbury had obtained good prices because people could tell good mutton from bad. The North Island had had bad prices because the mutton was bad. Lincoins were the worst for mutton on account of the class of treatment given them, but that they would make good mutton if treated properly went without saying. But Lincoln mutton never would be the best. Br. Overton had said that some gentleman had taken his Lincoln hoggets for Downs. Well, the man who could not tell a Lincoln from a Down was a fool.

Mr. Overton said it was one of Fitter's men.

Mr. Nelson said he could not help that. The difficulty was to get a man who did know something about the subject. The freezing companies found more difficulty in getting men for the purpose of inspection than for any other.

Question as amended proposed—" That, in order to give confidence k, buyers and to secure as far as possible good quality of the meat exported, it is desirable that the freezing companies in the colony should agree to a uniform system of grading, as far as consistent with due regard to local conditions."

Agreed to.

Question proposed, " That, in order to regulate the supplies to the Home-market, and to prevent the glut which has been occasioned by excessive shipments during the first half of each year, it would be very advantageous if provision were made for storage accommodation in the colony, so that supplies sent forward may be regulated and any glut prevented."

Agreed to.

Mr. Kirkbride seconded the motion pro formâ. He did not altogether agree with that part of the resolution asking the Government to appoint to official on the staff of each of the freezing companies as the grader. The manager of these works was, perhaps, the most competent person to undertake the work; but he did not think that it would be sufficient protection to the sheepfarmers, at any rate to many of them. He would he to see the motion amended in some way. Those who knew him beet knew that he was one of the last in the world to favour the appointment of a Government official in such matters; but the manager of a freezing-works, he thought, would not be a free agent.

The Chairman said the clauses of the motion would be taken seriatim.

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Sir John Hall said he would gladly support the appointment of an Executive Committee-He suggested whether it might not be expedient and desirable that something in the nature of an association representing wool-growers and mutton-exporters should be formed, after the plan of the National Dairy Association—a permanent body. Perhaps that might eventually come out of this proposal; for the present he would be quite prepared to support the proposition for an Executive Committee to give effect to the resolutions of this Conference. He believed they would eventually come to a permanent association.

Question proposed, "That a Standing Executive Committee, consisting of the following members, be appointed to represent this Conference till its next meeting—namely: North Island—Mr. W, & Buchanan, Mr. C. Fharazyn, Mr. W. Nelson, Mr. W. E. Bidwill, Mr. W. H. Millward. South Island—Sir J. Hall, Hon, T. Fergus, Mr. A. C. Begg, Mr. Macfarlane. Mr. J. C. Chaytor; with power to add to their number."

Agreed to.

Question proposed, "That it be an instruction to the committee to endeavour to arrange with the Agricultural Department for the appointment of a suitable person on the staff of each of the freezing companies as a Government Inspector of meat."

Mr. Begg said it would be most objectionable for the Government to appoint aman of their own to go and interfere with these freezing companies, The managers of these works would be the most capable to look after the health and wholesomeness of the meat, as well as the grading. Nothing better could be devised than to give these men a certain official standing with regard to looking after the health of the sheep.

Mr. Nelson said the point to be aimed at was that our mutton should go to England with the Government brand on it, as a guarantee that it was free from disease.

Mr. Orbell said that over in Australia there had been a scare, audit had been reported that we had anthrax in New Zealand. It was therefore important that we should have such a man appointed.

Mr. Nelson said his firm had to pay a pretty heavy license to a man to inspect their meat.

Mr. Sladden said, in order to get their meat into Continental markets, it was very necessary that the stamp of Government approval should be on it. It would be a very great expense to appoint inspectors to do all the work in the colony. As to suitable men, he did not know any men more suitable than those who were employed by the freezing companies, He did not see why the Government should not license men for the purpose and if there were any unfavourable reports about their inspection, either from England or elsewhere, the renewal of their license might be refused. The Government licensed pilots and other skilled persons, and something of the same character might be done in this direction which would get over the difficulty in every way.

Motion agreed to.

Question proposed, "That it be an instruction to the committee to urge. Upon the Colonial Treasurer the necessity for aiding the various freezing companies in the endeavour to regulate shipments by such financial assistance as may be necessary and practicable for the erection of stores, and in other directions."

Mr. Coleman Phillips said the proposal was too indefinite. He was opposed to going to the Government for assistance. Whatever cool-storage was wanted those interested should erect themselves.

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Sir John Hall said that was all very well for the produce sent out by the freezing companies, hut there were some other people involved—those mutton-growers who sent Home their own sheep. These might And considerable difficulty in getting the freezing companies to store their sheep. Despite what had been said about the existing provision made for storage in the colony, it was at present insufficient, and the question was whether additional storage should not be provided. It seemed to him it would be a great advantage to have additional storage at the port of shipment, It would probably be a paying thing for the Harbour Boards to erect stores .t which either the freezing companies or private people could store sheep until it was thought desirable to ship them. He believed the Lyttelton Harbour Board had done that for dairy produce, and might do it for meat also. With regard to the general question of Government assistance, he thought that meat-growers haul as good a claim upon the Government as any other class of people in the colony. The Government had given assistance to miners and dairy associations, and he could not but relieve, if it were shown it was necessary to provide proper storage for frozen mutton, that they would give it. He did not think the assistance should be confined to the freezing companies; it should be made more general.

Mr. Macfarlane said he thought most of those present would agree that the Government should not interfere with the shipment of frozen mutton. It would be more to the purpose if the Conference amended the motion in the direction of empowering the committee to approach the freezing companies with the object of getting them to form a Council among them. A great many recommendations had been made, but it rested with the companies whether they would agree to the resolutions or not. Anything the Conference might suggest might carry a certain amount of weight, but it would not bind the companies in any way. If the Conference appointed a Council to consider all business matters, then it would have met for some good purpose. There was no doubt, however, that the glut in the London market had been caused by the shipments being sent to London alone, and one of the matters for the freezing companies to consider in future would be the sending of shipments to different parts of England. Cool-storage had been erected at Manchester, Glasgow, and at other places, and one of their objects would be to arrange shipments for those places. That should be left to the freezing companies, which would be able to deal with such business matters as those. No doubt the sheepfarmers were interested, but they were not interested in the same way as were the freezing companies, and such arrangements should be left to the companies. The Government should not in any way interfere with the shipments.

Mr. Begg said it was not desirable that Government should be asked to give assistance in this matter, because wherever t.hey had Government assistance they had Government interference. With regard to what Sir John Hall had said in reference to stores at the port of shipment, each store would involve an engineering staff and large expense, whereas, if additional storage were put up at the freezing-works, the same staff would be able to look after it, and so save expense. It would be very much better to have larger as com mod at ion at each of the freezing works, for then the various staffs would be able to manage the whole business. Otherwise it would involve the shifting of the meat from the free zing-works to the stores at the different ports, which would mean, probably, ¼d. or ½d. ft pound extra burden upon the trade. He did not approve of approaching the Government at all, but thought the freezing page 44 companies ought to arrange for any extra storage they wanted. If any company chose to approach the Government for an advance it was a different matter. They knew that Government had been advancing money to settlers en property, and there was no objection to a company applying for assistance, but the Conference should not ask for any Government interference with this trade in any shape or form.

Mr. Bidwill said it had been resolved that extra accommodation should be given at this end, and the only thing to consider now was the financing of it. The only people who could do that were the freezing companies. They had been told that, if they put up extra accommodation, they would get their freight reduced by ½d. a pound. Such extra accommodation would benefit the shipping companies, as they would get full cargoes all the year round, and he thought they ought to get something from those companies. If they could not, then they ought to approach the Government. The object was to get a reduction of freight, and the only way to get that was to have the necessary storage, so that they could equalise the shipments throughout the year.

Mr. Orball said there were some gentlemen to whom a proposal to approach the Government was like a red flag. The Government had given aid to the dairy producer by erecting stores in various parts, and why would they not be justified in doing the same for the frozen-meat trade? The Government could hardly be expected to spend money on private property, as would be the case if they erected stores at the freeing. Works.

The Hon. T. Fergus said he agreed with Mr. Begg that it would be better to have the storage at the various freezing-works. The Government had aided private enterprise in every direction, and he did not see why they should not aid the freezing companies on some pro raid basis. He understood that Mr. Nelson had said he had accommodation at Hawks's Bay for sufficient sheep all the year, and it had been stated that in Wellington they had storage for 40 per cent, of the total output. It therefore only remained for the companies in the South Island to do likewise.

Mr. Nelson said he was glad to hear the Hon. Mr. Fergus say that, as it went to the root of the matter, The North Island was practically provided for in that respect, and it only remained for the South Island to do likewise. His feeling was very strong that the Government should not have anything to do with the freezing companies at all. Only a very small sum of money was involved to build the stores, and it was not worth while invoking Government aid on such a small point.

Mr. Sladden said Mr. Orbell had stated that, as Government had built stores for butter at the ports, he thought Sir John Hall's suggestion was a good one. As a matter of fact, the Government had not built stores; they had simply made arrangements with people who already had them, and he asserted positively that they could not have erected stores profitably for the small amount that had been charged. The Lyttelton Harbour Board had an electrical staff for their lighting-works which could also look after a cool-store, and being able to combine the two was a very great economy, Being able thus to provide cool-storage cheaply, they offered it to the Government cheaply. He was certain the Government could not put up stores for dairy purposes and do it for the figure it had been done for. He agreed with Mr. Begg that one single handling of the meat would be quite enough to absorb another ½d. "That was a very large item on the sheep, and was independent of interest and depreciation of works and cost of running. If the storage were put on the site of the freezing-works, only the roof would be wanted, for they had got the staff and power to store. page 45 If were put up anywhere else, the machinery and boilers would have to be erected, and a complete engineer's staff of three shifts provided. From the point of view of construction and working, and in point of economy, he did not think anything could compare with the proposal to have the storage at the present free zing-works.

Mr. Begg said he thought each freezing company should be left to its own devices, and should be in a position to ask the Government for assistance. There could be no objection to that. If any freezing company could get assistance from the Government on reasonable terms there was no reason why it should not obtain it.

Motion negatived.

Question proposed, "That it be an instruction to the committee generally to do all things as necessity arises to advance the interests of the trade and to carry out the objects of this Conference."

Agreed to.

Question proposed, "That it be an instruction to the committee to call another meeting of the Conference when necessary, and to prepare a programme of work to lay before it."

Agreed to.

Mr. Bradcy proposed, "That, in the opinion of this Conference, it is desirable that each freezing company in the colony should appoint a competent grader or examiner of frozen meat, and that such grader or examiner must obtain a certificate of authority from the Government." He thought the persons appointed by the various freezing companies should receive a certificate from the Government to give them an official standing.

Motion negatived.

Mr. Orbell moved, "That, with a view to the concentration of the trade in Great Britain, it is desirable that the distribution of our meat should be placed in the hands of as few agents as possible, and this Conference strongly recommends the freezing companies and others interested to give effect to this resolution as far as practicable." The object was to have as few consignees as possible in London. They knew that a great deal of meat had fallen into the hands of small men who had not been able to hold it. He knew there were a great many men who sold in the colony, and of course the consignments did not go direct into the market, and could not be controlled. The proposal could not be carried out strictly, but still a recommendation from the Conference to the companies to confine their consignments to as few men as possible would have some effect.

Mr. Begg said he supposed the object was to prevent the mischief that had happened through a few consignees being forced to put their meat on the market at unsuitable times, which had had the effect of bringing the prices down. Those in the colony who dealt with the companies could protect their own interests, but those who consigned were not in the same position, and if they injudiciously consigned their meat to a larger number of consignees they did a great deal of harm to the whole trade, A farmer who had fifteen hundred or one thousand sheep was perhaps advised by a friend who did not know much about it to consign them to an unsuitable person, and this motion would prevent the possibility of a low market being interfered with and affected.

Mr. Nelson thought Mr. Orbell's expression of opinion on this subject might be of great value to the colony at large, and might be very acceptable to those people who were in difficulty as to what they should do with their sheep.

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Mr. Coleman Phillips said the butter people in Denmark handled their butter through on o agent in London, and he understood the Argenting meat was concentrated into four hands. It was absurd that there should be so many consignees for New Zealand meat, and he should support Mr. Orbell's motion.

Mr. Sladdan said the motion referred to sheep that were frozen on farmers' account. It should be an instruction to the farmers instead of to the freezing companies.

Motion agreed to, and referred to the standing committee.

It was also agreed to refer Mr. Begg's motion to the standing committee.

Mr. Martin moved, "That the Government be approached on the subject of altering the date for making sheep returns in the colony, and that the month of January be substituted for the present date."

Mr. Allen, M,H.R., seconded the motion, which was agreed to, and ordered to be referred to the standing committee.

Mr. J. C. Chaytor moved, "That the question of opening up trade with the South Sea Islands and with Japan be referred to the standing committee.

Mr. Majendie seconded the motion, which was agreed to.

Mr. Allen, M. H. R., moved, "That, in the opinion of this Conference, the agricultural statistics should be made public not later than the end of March in each year."

Mr. Booth seconded the motion, which was ordered to be referred to the standing committee.

Mr. J. C. Chaytor moved, "That Mr. Coleman Phillips's paper on 'New Markets for New Zealand Produce' be taken as read, and referred to the standing committee."

Mr. Majendie seconded the motion, which was agreed to.

Mr. Millward moved a vote of thanks to the Government for calling the Conference. He said that, whatever might have been the various views expressed by members, there could be no doubt that some good would come out of the Conference, and the Government should be heartily thanked for calling it.

Motion agreed to.

Mr. Begg moved a vote of thanks to the Chairman for the satisfactory way in which he had presided over the Conference. Those who had attended had received a great deal of information which they had not when they came there, and the business had been conducted and dispatched in an expeditious and creditable way.

Motion agreed to.

The Chairman said he was glad to have been of some little use, It would be admitted that his position had been very difficult, owing to the absence of a programme. It had been difficult to adhere to any definite lines. He was quite satisfied that the Conference, like all Conferences, had done good. Many had attended thinking they had got hold of certain facts in connection with the frozen-meat trade, and would go away with different opinions. In his experience he had found that the man who took the trouble to get at the bottom of facts was the man who met with success, while the man who did not generally failed.

The Hon. T. Fergus said the Conference ought to record its appreciation of the services of Mr. Ritchie, the Secretary of the Agricultural Department, for the kindness and courtesy he had shown to all, He moved, That a vote of thanks be accorded to that gentleman.

Motion agreed to.

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Mr. J. D. Ritchie said he was glad to hear from the Hon. T. Fergus that his services were appreciated. Anything he could do in the way of influencing the welfare of the country he was sure he would always be pleased to do.

The proceedings then terminated.

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