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The Pamphlet Collection of Sir Robert Stout: Volume 71

Statement made by Governor Llewellyn

Statement made by Governor Llewellyn.

Prohibition has not been a success in the centres of population in Kansas, and the difficulty arises from the fact that in these places public sentiment cannot be brought to the support of the law; the Act, indeed, being in such instances most unpopular. Now, Leavenworth for example, and Kansas City, Kansas, and Wichita are three of our largest cities, but in each and all of these public sentiment is so overwhelmingly against the law as it now stands that something in the form of a regulation of the traffic, which it is an impossibility to suppress, has been locally undertaken. In these places, I live in Wichita myself, there is an undoubted inclination for the institution of some form of high license. In the rural districts and a large number of country towns or cities, prohibition has proven fairly successful. I think if a plebescite was taken on the subject of a repeal of the law the result would be most difficult to foretell, as in my opinion public sentiment is pretty evenly balanced. On an occasion like that, where there is to be a vote by the people, there is more or less agitation and discussion, and the voters get worked up, whilst at the same time party interests get imported into the contest, but I think if a direct and immediate vote was obtainable without any previous agitation it is possible the repeal would fellow. I have no hesitation in saying that the voting for prohibition would not be so large as when the vote to amend the constitution was taken. Whether there would be a sufficient number to carry prohibition is a very doubtful question. Changes have arisen in the voting powers of parties since the passage of the law. One contributory cause has been the class of immigration which has in many instances had to supply the vacancies caused by emigration. I am an ex-resident of Iowa, where I lived several years, and undoubtedly in the case of that State this cause strongly contributed to the present anti-prohibition feeling existent in that State. There emigration from Iowa of prohibitionists who settled in the Dakota has been followed by the influx of Germans and other foreigners, who whilst they are good settlers and fine agriculturists, yet entirely disbelieve in prohibition. There has been some change in Kansas from a similar cause, but we have not had so great an influx to replace the people we lost at the time of the settlement of the Indian territory. Then, too, a good many people who voted solid for prohibition have become convinced by results that the law cannot be satisfactorily enforced. I do not think that prohibition working under the administration of a National police such as you instance as existing in New Zealand would prove any more successful than it has done here. I think this is the city in the whole of the United States where Prohibition is best enforced. We have no open saloons, but I will not say itis not possible for a man to get a drink of beer in an open store, or shop, and drink same in view of the passing public. Indeed, after what you have related to me, I should say it was not a difficult matter, but had you not related some of your own experiences, I should from my personal observation have said such were almost an impossibility. I know, of course, that there are clubs as I have said, in fact I am aware of the existence of two German clubs, and another called The Elks. I believe the Germans drink in thoroughly Socialistic style from a common store, but in the Elks every man possesses his own locker. Undoubtedly other like institutions exist, but I cannot speak from personal knowledge. I should not think great difficulty would be experienced by a stranger in obtaining supplies at his hotel. It is unfortunate that the law, owing to its not being administered in our centres of page 24 population, leads young men and others to regard with some contempt all legal restrictions. This must have a demoralising effect. In Wichita the "joints" are run in an open manner, that is they have all liquor bars, but they do not front on the street, and the keepers are fined monthly in such a manner that whilst they are not made amenable under the Prohibition law (which inflicts penalties of imprisonment as well as tines) they yet indirectly contribute largely to the city revenue in the form of tines for breaches of some city ordinance.

Statement of George 11. Meyer, City Marshall (Chief of Police) for the City of Saline:—My opinion regarding Prohibition and its effect upon this community is that whilst its introduction has led a number of men to abandon drinking, yet I believe a greater number have, owing to the existence of Prohibition, started drinking that otherwise would have probably left it alone, This because the moment you prohibit them these men are determined to have it. Then, again, we have a class of men whom we call "bottle-leggers." They send for a keg of liquor, then sell it in some out-of-the-way place. I have known them even say to a man, "You can have all your drink free: just bring me customers." This is an inducement to old topers to tout for them, ami oftentimes young fellows, who would never be seen going into an open saloon, will visit these joints, believing it is something manly to deft the law, and that their relatives will never know anything. Then another evil is the numerous societies which are inaugurated solely for the purpose of getting young people together that drink may be introduced under one plea or another. Card-playing clubs, even singing societies, are not free from it, and in this latter instance I speak with the certain knowledge of having been asked to become a member of such a society, when in course of formation, and on my putting the question, "Do you intend to introduce any drink?" was told they had thought of getting in a barrel of beer for subsequent refreshment. 1 declined to join that "singing." The profit derived from the sale of beer on such occasions, for it is retailed at five cents a glass, just as it would be in an open saloon, and is not a keg set up in a room where members can help themselves, is usually divided by the originators of the schemes. Now, I do not believe, even if we had open saloons, we could run the thing in better shape than it is at present. Our system is this: Although there are no regular recognised saloons doing business and paying monthly fines to the municipality, as you will find in some other cities in the State, yet there are joints, and we do not interfere with them so long as they do not sell to minors or drunken persons, or supply habitual drunkards. We do not close them all up, because if we did so to-day, to-morrow just as many would start up elsewhere in the city, and then you could readily bankrupt, a county by a lot of these cases, for, the witnesses' expenses would be excessive, and then it is next to impossible to get a conviction. In my opinion Prohibition has proved a failure. It not only takes our surplus money out of the State, but bads young men whom, I am positive, would not be seen going into a saloon to lower their manhood, and sneak into places where liquor of the vilest quality is being sold. These young fellows think that their purpose in walking, say into a billiard-saloon, or through a cigar store into a backroom, is never divined, and that nobody is any the wiser as to the reason for their going into the place, I think if you would stay in this city for a few days and watch at the railway depots the quantity of stuff that comes into the place, you would quickly realise what a farce the law in its present form is. Why, I should estimate that we have one or two carloads a week come in here, and then additional to this are all the cases of bottled liquors. We gave the monthly tine system a trial two years ago, but it was not a success, because we found that some of the keepers considered that having paid this they could carry on just as they liked. Of course, we quickly stopped that, but we find we can best keep them in bounds by letting them sell quietly, and keep the young people off their premises. In cases in which fines have been inflicted they just got somebody else to act as their agents, and went on selling again. Now, you see a case of beer containing two dozen bottles costs wholesale two dollars sixty-five cents, and the bottles can be retailed in a joint at twenty-five Cents each—a good profit. I am in favour of a high license system, with a limitation of licenses based upon population. We had sixteen saloons here before the page 25 law of prohibition came in. Well, for the last few months we have not had much trouble, but before that period there was considerable drinking going on. Now we have got the joint-keepers pretty well in hand, so that they know who to sell to, and also know that we will stand no nonsense. The United States Revenue Returns show that there are twenty-eight holders of United States licenses to sell intoxicating liquor. Four of those are druggists, so it is not a difficult thing to arrive at the conclusion that we have somewhere in the city twenty-four "joints." As a fact the law was utterly powerless to touch the offender. Our population, according to the local census taken this year, is 6,835, and we boast of having five public (national) schools, and five other large educational establishments in Saline.