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The Pamphlet Collection of Sir Robert Stout: Volume 59

Otago Daily Times, — Deputation

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Otago Daily Times,

Deputation.

A deputation from the New Zealand Manufacturers' Association waited upon Sir Julius Vogel yesterday afternoon in pursuance of the following resolution passed at a meeting of the General Committee:—"That the policy of the Stout-Vogel Government of fostering and protecting Colonial industries has the hearty support and sympathy of this association, believing as they do that the future prosperity of the Colony depends materially upon legislation in this direction." The deputation consisted of Messrs G. P. Farquhar (president), B. Hallenstein, T. W. Kempthorne, W. Henderson, A. Burt, R. S. Sparrow, H. E. Shacklock, C. Moore, and D. R. Eunson (hon. secretary).

Mr A. Burt introduced the members of the deputation, and explained the object of their visit.

Mr G. P. Farquhar said it was thought by the association that an expression of sympathy with the Government in their proposed alterations of the tariff last session might be of some use—at all events it might cheer the Government up and enable them to feel that some portion of the people at anyrate were at one with them upon the subject.

Sir Julius Vogel.—I am at a loss to understand how intelligent men can fail to see that the future of the country depends upon the population finding employment, and that if they do not they simply go away, and other industries—the agricultural and pastoral—suffer. The persons who rail about Freetrade and call themselves Freetraders seem to do so from a sort of association with people at Home who take up the same line. They have read more or less about it, and they give us the same views that were propounded many years ago and used in quite an opposite direction. Protection was first invoked for the benefit of the agricultural classes, and it was they who stood up longest for it; but Freetraders are now trying to stir up the agriculturists against Protection. I cannot understand how they can be blind to the fact that unless we obtain a Home market for our produce we have to rely year by year upon the conditions of immense countries far away, of which we have little knowledge. The Home market is a safe market for us, and when we go beyond it it is to a great extent a plunge in the dark. Of course it is very gratifying to the Government to know that they have the support of many influential manufacturers such as are present here, but they want something more. They want your influence to be felt. It is not enough to console the Government that they were unsuccessful last session; but what is the association going to do to enable them to be successful in future years? In other words, what are your members going to do? Some went absolutely contrary to the promises made to their constituents. I am not blaming them, though, because I think every member has a right to use his own discretion. But, judging from what we see, Dunedin would seem to be the stronghold of the ultra-Freetrade party.

Mr Burt: I do not think so.

Mr Hallenstein said he thought if the Government brought forward the same measures as last session and were defeated and went to the country, they would be returned with a majority. He believed the question had been more ventilated since last session, and that within 12 months the bulk of the population would be with them.

Mr Farquhar also thought the Protectionists were gaining power every day.

Sir J. Vogel: I think you are, but the persons who take Freetrade views are very strong, and they have a great hold on the Press. It is easier for Press writers to write the old blue which comes natural to them like an old lesson, than to think out the subject. Nearly all the thoughtful men who have gone to Canada and examined the working of Protection there, have come back and said that, however suitable Freetrade may be for England, Protection has immensely benefited Canada. Lord Dufferin, Lord Lome, and the present Governor-general seem all of the same view. It is often not remembered what England has gone through. The Protective system in England built up half her trade. Look at the wool trade for example. For over a century it was a serious offence to export an ounce of wool. Protection was used in many shapes. It is rather absurd for us to declare ourselves like the England of the present day. We must be far more like the England of hundreds of years ago. You must not be content with passing resolutions encouraging the Government. The power in the country rests with the people, and all you manufacturers who give so much assistance to the labouring classes of the Colony can surely ask them to consider the matter. The time has passed, of course, when any control could be exercised, but the labouring classes are very intelligent, and if the case is put fairly before them are likely to see it. There may have been defects in the first tariff proposed, but the Government were awkwardly placed as regarded obtaining information from manufacturers, but afterwards we were in communication with a number of persons engaged in trade throughout the Colony, and the amendments proposed would, I think, have made a most suitable tariff. Softgoods, for instance, were to be in only two lines—one free and the other 16½ per cent, duty—and when this was proposed a softgoods man in the House sent me round a slip of paper to say that, if carried, this would make a perfect tariff. But the Freetrade members would not hear of it. They brought up the old books they had page break learnt at school, and it was thrown out. Then we came to increases for revenue purposes, and proposed to increase the duty on tea to what it had been before, but they would not listen to that; and the Opposition members who were really inclined to Protection, led by Major Atkinson, who has avowed himself a Protectionist, thought they might score a win off the Freetrade bat, and therefore went with the Freetraders. At next election I think the question will occupy some attention, and possibly members will be more reasonable. I am glad to see you, gentlemen; but why do you not interview your members as well separately?

Mr Burt: We have done it.

Sir J. Vogel: It has not appeared in the papers.

Mr Burt; We are always at them.

Sir J. Vogel: You should get them into a corner and ask what they are going to do, because there is no doubt that some who said they were going to vote one way voted another.

Mr Burt: We will do it at next election. There is no doubt that three-fourths of them were returned pledged to support local industries; but we will have better pledges next time, and make them go either for Protection or Freetrade.

Sir J. Vogel: It is an important question, but I do not think it actually comes to Protection. For fiscal reasons we are bound to have a heavy tariff. The present tariff has been framed largely on the lines of Protection.

Mr Burt: No doubt the present is a Protective tariff, but it wants modifications.

Sir J. Vogel agreed, and proceeded to mention several commodities—blankets, furniture, candles, &c.—which should be manufactured here.

Mr Hallenstein said that many goods which could be made cheaper here were still imported, because importers could thus make a larger profit than by buying them here.

Sir Julius Vogel said the Freetraders were indifferent to a well-known business principle—that things could be supplied much cheaper on a large scale than on a small.

Mr Burt said that in his line a difference of 25 per cent, could be made between the price of one article and the price of a dozen of the same.

Sir J. Vogel said Freetraders did not seem to see this: that extending the theatre of the local manufacturers enabled them to produce much cheaper. In Germany Prince Bismarck had gone in for a thorough Protective system, and consequently the people were well occupied.

Mr Hallenstein said things were better in Germany now than in England, and many English manufacturers had gone over to Germany.

Mr Kempthorne said the deputation had come chiefly to thank Sir Julius for his efforts in the past. They would endeavour as far as they could to assert their opinions at the next election.

Sir J. Vogel thought that if the members were earnestly spoken to upon the subject they would come round. One or two to whom he had spoken seemed inclined to alter their views.

Mr Kempthorne said they would interview the members, and get their reported opinions. They must make use of the Press.

Sir J. Vogel went on to refer to other anomalies in the tariff. Ærated waters, for one thing, were admitted free, and 15 per cent, was charged on many of the ingredients that had to be used for their manufacture in the Colony. It was a reproach to the intelligence of the Colony to pretend that we could not manufacture such a commodity as aerated waters. With regard to the fruit pulp, also, about which there had been some agitation. The pulp which was imported from Tasmania—and it was questionable if it was in a condition fit for food—was the means of preventing many acres in this Colony being planted with fruit trees.

Mr Farquhar congratulated the Colonial Treasurer upon the success of the Wellington, Exhibition, held under Government auspices, and expressed the opinion that it would do a great deal of good.

Sir J. Vogel said it was proposed to hold the next exhibition in 1887, and it seemed to be a question whether it should be held in Dunedin or Christchurch. He suggested the matter I might be settled by a friendly competition at rifle-shooting, or the two mayors might bid for the privilege at auction.

Mr Burt did not think manufacturers would care which city it was held in. He would as soon have it in Christchurch himself.

Mr Kempthorne thought it was rather an advantage to manufacturers to have it away from their city, as their wares were seen by people who might never have seen them, before.

Mr Hallenstein expressed an opinion that once in three years would be often enough to hold the exhibitions, as they entailed heavy expense to exhibitors.

The deputation then withdrew.