Mr Grant P. Farquhar,

who, as an old manufacturer, and president of page break the Manufacturers' Association, has a right to speak with a good deal of authority. He received us graciously, and, while he willingly answered our questions, he pointed out that the subject was one greatly complicated by aide issues and variety of surroundings. The following is a short account of our "chat" with Mr Farquhar:—

Reporter: the subject of Protection is, I suppose, one which both as a manufacturer yourself and as president of the Manufacturers' Association, you have thought a great deal about?

Mr Farquhar: I was a Freetrader at one time, and I endeavoured to the best of my ability to get down to the bottom of the matter and reason it out. Freetrade pure and simple so far as I can see means the abolition of the Custom House, and a tax or rental upon land to provide funds for carrying on Government. Land in combination with labour is the only source of wealth. Under these circumstances you would have an entirely free country. There is no reason that I can see why moneys for carrying on Government should be derived from taxation of goods that come into the country; surely it should rather be a portion of the products of the country, which form its real wealth, that should be impounded to meet the charges of Government. I am quite willing to admit that supposing all the world adopted Freetrade, and nations were all affectionatsly disposed one towards another, that under these circumstances Freetrade might probably be a very good thing, but then that would mean a very near approach to the millennium, and each man would have more regard for the good of his neighbour than his own. But, of course, that is mere dreaming, and cannot be. We must take the hard, practical conditions as our forefathers have left them to us, and make the moat we can of them.

R.: What are your views with regard to the adoption of Protection in this colony?

Mr F.: The question is what do you want to make of New Zealand? If you want to build up an all-round nation you must have manufactures; you must produce as many articles as possible for your own use. You cannot very well attain that end without protection to industries, for the simple reason that a country with large manufacturing power firmly established has the market to a great extent at its command, and can sell at prices that struggling industries in a new country cannot possibly compete with. If the local market, small as it is in some instances, were assured to the manufacturer he could soon produce goods at a price as low—possibly lower—than they could be imported for

R.: Is there not a considerable measure of protection here now?

Mr F.: Of course every tax placed upon imported goods is practically a protectionist tax.

R.: Has the present tariff done good in developing industries?

Mr F.: Of course it has so far as it goes. We should not have had any manufactures here at all if it had not been for that

R.: It being clear that the present measure of Protection has done much good, do you think the colony might safely go further in the same direction?

Mr F.: That opens up a very large question indeed. Personally, I have always refused to say what protective duties I thought it would be advisable to put on goods in the trade with which I am more immediately connected, because I think the duties should be fixed by an impartial authority, who would be able to consider the matter independent of individual interests. Duties should be put on for the good of the country, and not for the benefit of mere individuals.

R.: Is it not a fact that not only in your trade, but in all trades, Urge quantities of goods are being imported which might be manufactured here?

Mr F.: Large quantities of goods are being imported into the colony in my trade which could be made here very well, and would be made here if the local market wag secured to the local industries for, say, twelve months. After that very little would be imported.

R: Does not that fact, coupled with the equally incontestable fact that large numbers of efficient workmen are leaving the country, show that heavier duties in the direction of Protection are called for?

Mr F.: There is no duty at all comparatively speaking, on our goods. It is not that we cannot produce goods now at a low enough price, but people have got used to certain peculiar makes as to appearance and finish, and look with suspicion on the locally made article. There is more that mere price in the matter, there is trade prejudice to be broken down. I know of one line of which it is perfectly true to say that it is not a question of price or quality at all that keeps out the local manufacturer, but simply prejudice.

R.: In your opinion would Protection have the effect of raising prices?

Mr F.: In our business it would have the effect of lowering them; it has had that effect in Victoria. Victoria is one of the cheapest places in the colonies. I do not think it would be to the interest of the business I am personally connected with that Protection should be the rule of the laud. I think we are probably doing better as we are. But I would like to see Protection adopted more extensively because I believe it would be for the good of the country if it was. There is one direction in which we have Protection of a very high kind, to which I alluded in public on a recent occasion, that is the University. We could import lawyers, doctors, &c., far cheaper than we make them, but if, as I say, we are to make the country an all-round one, we must open up the avenues of the learned professions for our youth; we cannot send them all to till the land. A curious fact in this connection is that though the University is perhaps more highly protected than anything else in the country, yet the Professor are all rabid Freetraders.

R.: Would you make it a little dearer as to how Protection might detrimentally affect you

Mr F.: I will show you exactly how it is. We have built a Urge factory, one probably unequalled in the colonies, and Protection instead of having the result of benefiting us, might introduce competition and cut down prices until they ceased to leave any margin of profit. Some other businesses here are in a similar position.

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R.: What, in your opinion, is likely to be the effect of Protection on working men?

Mr F.: I do not see why it should lower wages. There are no countries in the world where men are more free and independent than in Victoria and New Zealand. They rule the mast rs, not the masters them. Protection carried on for a few years eventually must bring a time when there will be a tendency to over-production, but that comes equally with Freetrade. It is the threshold of a question which neither Protectionists nor Freetraders care to face, the question of the future of over-populated, over-producing, civilised nations That question is too broad and deep a one to enter upon,

R.: I gather from your conversation that you have had some personal knowledge of Victoria. What is your experience of the working of Protection and Freetrade there?

Mr F: It is nearly 24 years since I was there. There were fewer manufactures in Victoria at that time than there are here now, and the condition of things was much worse than it is here.

R.: Had the question of Protection versus Freetrade arisen there then?

Mr F.: Yes, it had arisen; but anyone who advocated Protection was looked upon as a fool who was not posted up in political economy. I know what have been the subsequent results in Victoria in some respects. A number of people with whom I am acquainted were opposed to Protection at the outset, and now, not only strongly favour it, but acknowledge they were mistaken. The merchants in Victoria have progressed hand in hand with the manufacturers. There are a large cumber of things which we could hardly ever hope to manufacture here, and these would always maintain a large importing class. Further, in connection with the very process of establishing industries, there must be a large amount of importing. Victoria has got to this stage that she wants reciprocity with the other colonies. She is over producing, and could produce 25 per cent, more with comparatively little additional expenditure of capital. She has got command of the market, and her interest is that the other colonies should be free to receive her productions.

R: There seems to be a feeling that the depression is still intensifying?

Mr F.: Of course the depression must increase unless we produce more or obtain better prices. The crops of wheat and oats last year paid no one, and the wool and frozen meat trades are just in about as miserable a condition as they well could be.

R.: Do you think a spirited Protection policy would go a considerable way towards removing the depression?

Mr F.: Yes; money that is going out of the country would be kept in it. It would operate in exactly the same way as borrowing money here, if we could do so, as opposed to borrowing it in England. Of course if we borrowed here the interest would be redistributed throughout the country. America is an illustration. She is a Protective country, and sells every pennyworth of goods she can here, yet takes but little of our products; there is no real interchange of trade. She has thus bled this country of thousands which might have been kept here with advantage.

R.: What hope do you think there is for the future?

Mr F.: Well, of course we cannot foretell what fluctuations may take place in the value of our staple products, and it is that which will affect us more materially than anything else, but the adoption of a more definite: Protectionist policy would afford a good deal of immediate relief. As was endeavoured to be shown by an article from a Home newspaper which I read at the Chamber of Commerce the other day the production of gold has a direct influence on the state of trade, and the present depression throughout the world is traceable to the great falling off in the supply of that metal. I think, therefore, that if we could possibly discover a new gold-field, find out some efficient means of extracting gold in large quantities from known deposits, or fall on any means to largely increasing our supply of gold, it would have a material effect in dispelling the depression. But the great point to my mind is this: that, as I have said, if we want to build up an all-round nation we must foster our industries, and give them a foothold by means of Protection.