Questions.

The Chairman: Gentlemen, you have heard Mr. Connell's address, and as he has stated in his advertisement that he would be prepared to answer questions I shall invite you now to put them one by one.

Mr Archibald: Mr Connell has not stated the amount of public money spent in New South Wales and Victoria.

Mr Connell: In what way? Do you mean upon railways?

Mr Archibald: I mean the whole of the borrowed money spent in each colony.

Mr Connell: Yes, I can give you that. I may mention one fact which will show you pretty well what is being spent by the two colonies upon public works. The aggregate number of miles of railways opened by Victoria in twenty years is 797, while New South Wales in the same time opened 693 miles of railways. An impression has got abroad that New South Wales has made an immense number more railways than Victoria, but this is not the case. She has constructed really less. With regard to money raised on loans and land sales—-(to Mr Archibald:) Will that suit you?

Mr Archibald: Yes.

Mr Connell: The amount from 1866 to 1886 was, in Victoria by loans, £16,631,106, and in New South Wales the amount during the same period was only £13,515,097, so that they borrowed a much larger sum in Victoria. Then in land sales, Victoria, during the same twenty years, raised £17,355,258, and New South Wales raised by the same means only £14,249,732. The sum total of money raised by land sales or loans was, in Victoria, £33,986,364, and in New South Wales it was £27,764,829, so that Victoria raised in these ways an excess page 14 of £6,221,535 over New South Wales?, showing that the prosperity of the latter colony arose from her industry and resources, rather than from land sales or borrowed money.

Another Elector: Did you include minerals amongst the products of the two countries?

Mr Connell: I can tell you that the gold which Victoria produced in 20 years was of the value of £85,819,216, and that during the same period she produced wool to the value of £67.891,880. In those 20 years New South Wales produced gold to a value of only £15,763,365. and wool to a value of £110,530,781, so that the value of the gold and wool raised in Victoria was larger than the value of gold and wool raised in New South Wales. I may tell you that this valuable work from which I quote contains an immense amount of information which, however, I shall not trouble you by reading. It was written by Edward Pulsford, and published in Sydney. I telegraphed over to Sydney for 500 copies of it for the purpose of enabling me to circulate them amongst you gentlemen, 100 copies are here to-night and you can have copies at the published price, sixpence. The work contains a mass of information such as ought to convert you all into ardent free traders.

Mr Archibald: We want to make our own coats and shoes.

Mr Connell: Allow me tell you a story about making your own things. I believe that I may tell you that if I want a thing I am not above making it myself if I cannot do better. In the old days I was once very hard up for a pair of trousers - there were no tailors in those regions where I was living—and I had to start and make myself a pair of "breeks." (Laughter.) I was rather puzzled about it; still as I have said, I am an old colonial, and an old colonial must be prepared for any emergency. I bought the stuff, and my good old mother had taught me how to sew and stitch in view of possible contingencies when I arrived in New Zealand. And so I sewed on with great labour until I found that I had gone wrong by sewing two backs together instead of a back and a front. (Laughter.) So when I was just congratulating myself that I had managed to finish the job I found that they would not go on, and I had to take and rip those trousers up and sew them all over again. Now that is an instance of the consequences of wanting to make our own coats and trousers. It would pay me better to get someone else, who could do it better and cheaper than I myself could, to do the work for me.

Mr Archibald: But the money remained in your pocket.

Mr. Connell: I should just like to say a word about this, for it is just these statements that mislead the working classes. We would need to live a long time here before we could dig up sovereigns or pound notes. It is absolutely absurd to think or say, that by importing these things we send the money out of the country. That is perfectly foolish. You do not send a copper away. You cannot do it in that way. You must give those from whom you purchase abroad, not a something in the shape of a sovereign (that only represents the standard of value), but the man who gives us boots and shoes wants a something in exchange, and what we send in exchange is a bag of flour or something of that sort, which we can produce more easily than make boots. And those who talk of keeping the money in the country, only show their ignorance of the subject they are talking about. (Applause.)

At this stage, written questions began to be handed up to the platform, and Mr. Connell addressed himself to the answering of them.

Question: If you kick out all the bootmakers of Auckland, what will you do for boots?

Mr. Connell: Well, I'll tell you what I do. I went into Stevens's the other morning and said, "Stevens, I want a pair of boots." He replied, "I suppose as the elections are now on you will have a pair of local manufacture?" I said, "No, unless they will suit. I want a light pair, but not so light that they won't keep out the wet and the mud, for I have a lot of electioneering matters to attend to, and besides I am in a hurry. And I must have a nice-looking pair for I have to address the electors." (Laughter.) Oh! Mr. Cranwell, you need not look at these I have on now, for they are not the ones [bought from Stevens. (Renewed laughter.) He produced a pair of local manufacture. I looked at them and said, "No, they won't suit this individual. They are far too heavy." Then he produced an English pair. But they would not suit either. I wanted a pair that would keep out water and mud, that were light and nice, and I did not care where they were made. At last I asked if he had any French boots, and he produced then a pair which happened to suit me exactly. I did not care that (snapping his fingers) who made the boots. As an old colonial hand (laughter) I wanted a boot that pleased me, and I wanted it as cheap as I could get it.

Question: If Mr. Connell is elected would he vote to reduce the Governor's salary to £5000? Answer yes or no.

Mr. Connell: I absolutely refuse to answer yes or no to any question on demand. My opinion of the Governor's salary is that we cannot afford it and that we ought largely to reduce it. I won't pledge myself to reduce it to any particular figure, but it will be reduced if I can manage it, and very considerably too.

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Question: If returned to Parliament will you sanction payment of members in the Upper House?

Mr. Connell: I am inclined to think that if we took the salary entirely away a large number of members are not well enough off to do without the salary. I should be in favour of having it cut down very considerably—at the outside say to £100 a year.

Question: If elected would you be in favour of making such reductions in the present railway tariff as would enable settlers to send their produce to town at a reasonable rate?

Mr. Connell: The subject of a goods tariff is a very, very difficult one. My own feeling with regard to a large number of articles, particularly fruit, which at the present time is a bountiful gift of nature to us, but is simply wasted—these articles, I say—things like fruit, vegetables, butter, eggs, and similar products of a perishable nature might be carried at nominal rates, but with regard to heavy traffic, such as grain, etc., I am afraid that anything like heavy reductions would result in such a loss that taxation would have to be imposed to make up the deficiency, and that you would not stand. No one living in New Zealand recognises the importance of cheap rates more than I do. We want, however, sufficient intelligence' brought to bear upon our railways to make them work at the lowest practicable rates.

Question: What would the Frenchman take from us in return for your boots?

Mr Connell: That is a very good question. The Frenchman would certainly get some thing in exchange for his boots. In the first place it is most improbable that we would deal directly with the Frenchman. The transactions might go through a large number of hands. We give in exchange for the cheap nice things that are made for us at a distance some thing of equivalent value. We provide grain, wool, gold, gum. and so on. and these pay for our imports. We may deal with England, which deals with the Frenchman, or we may deal with Australia which deals with England, which in turn deals with the Frenchman, and so it goes to the Frenchman in the end.

Question: Would Mr. Connell kindly explain his views on the currency question?

Mr. Connell: I will decline to do so because I have not sufficiently studied the subject to be master of it to my own satisfaction. I never give opinions on any matter until I think I have mastered it.

Question: Do you not think that the great scarcity of gold has brought things down?

Mr. Connell: Most certainly the appreciation of gold has a good deal to do with low prices, but what is killing us as a community is the fact that we are ignorantly throwing £276,000 a year to protect industries which cannot hold out by their own efforts, and it is now proposed to throw away £500,000 by increased protective duties which yield no no revenue.

Question: Are you in favour of Bible instruction being given in public schools, and if so, whom do you consider the proper person to give such instruction?

Mr. Connell: It was scarcely necessary to ask me that. I am well known as one of the most ardent advocates of the Bible-in-schools that is in New Zealand. There is certainly not a more ardent one. With regard to the persons who should read the Bible, my ideas are these. Passages of Scripture might be selected by the Minister of Education and submitted for the approval of the heads of the Anglican, Presbyterian, and Wesleyan churches, or better probably these might select and the Minister approve, I think most will agree that that would be the easiest manner of selecting the passages of Scripture. When they were selected I will tell you what I would do if I were Minister of Education—(laughter), and more unlikely things have happened (renewed laughter.) I would forward a circular to the teachers of New Zealand, directing their attention to the fact that the Legislature had decided that portions of Scripture should be read in the public schools, and pointing out that the portions selected must be read with reverence and decency. I should add "no comments on the portions read are permitted, and if you should find any inconvenience or difficulty in carrying out the instructions contained in this circular send in your resignation."

An Elector: You will never get the ministers of religion to agree any more than you will the doctors.

Question: What effect would it have on the country schools of the colony if you raise the school ago to seven years?

Mr. Connell: I have already stated that I would not be in favour of raising the school age for the country districts because it might be the means of practically shutting up their schools.

Question: What effect would it have on the community if Mr. Vaile's scheme took people from their occupation?

Mr Connell: I think the effect of the reduced fares would be that everyone would travel a good deal more than they do now. I myself should probably travel ten or twelve times more than I do at present.

Question: What effect for the land-sharks would Vaile's scheme have on the value of the land? Whether would it benefit most the land-owners, or the people settled on the land?

Mr. Connell: The man who goes to-settle on the land ought to be the owner of it.

An Elector: He would have to buy it.

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Mr Council: Yes, by paying the market price of the land. The general effect of the adoption of Vaile's scheme would naturally be a rise in the value of country properties, and, without any person having to pay for the increased value, all the people who travel would get the advantage as well as landowners. I am one of those people who are determinedly opposed to this setting of class against class. There is no rich man in New Zealand that can say I ever fawned upon him. I have told them many unpleasant truths. There is no poor man that. I ever oppressed. It is degrading to our public life to see these attempts made to set class against class. I know no such distinctions as rich men and poor men, and I say that it is a weak thing to be envious of a man because he has property. We all should like to have property ourselves, if only we could have it honestly, and this attempt to set all the men in the colony who have little or less against those who have much or more, is abominable. While not a rich man myself, I think this attempt to turn the various classes of the community against each other as enemies, instead of combining all classes as one compact colony, is a disgrace to society, and I never will be a party to it.

The Chairman: I think this (producing a fragment of paper) must be part of the last question—"Would it not be better for them to attend to their work and pay their portion of the loss on its working, if any?"

Mr Connell: I confess that question is not exactly clear to my mind.

An Elector: If Vaile's system were adopted fares would be so cheap that everyone would travel and not work.

Mr Connell: Look here: it is even cheaper than Vaile's system to lie on the sofa and smoke a pipe. But you cannot get your food that way, and no amount of travelling on Vaile's system is going to get your breakfast. (Laughter and applause.)

Question: What is your opinion on Woman's Suffrage?

Mr Connell: My opinion has been already given, that it is devilment. (Laughter.) And allow me to recommend those of you who are married men to have nothing to do with it. I fully stated my views on this question in my address to the women of Auckland.

Question: Do you believe in the Eight Hours Bill?

Mr. Connell: I do not believe in the Eight Hours Bill, it is simply Radical claptrap, and if I can throw every Radical fad out of the House, I will do it.

An Elector: You won't have the chance.

Mr. Connell: Won't I, though?

Question: If a school-teacher were a Free-thinker, is it in your opinion desirable that he should read Scripture to children?

Mr. Connell: I do not care whether the man is a Free-thinker or an Idolator, so long as he is an able man, and does not bring anything immoral into the school, and so long as he reads the Scripture. I believe in the operation of the pure Scripture upon the minds of the children, without explanation of a single word.

Question: What is the state of the country where they grow the olives, in a wages point of view?

Mr. Connell (taking up and opening a book): Well, here is something about olives. Listen to this. [Here Mr Connell read a long extract showing the large profits to be made out of olive culture, with other information bearing upon the subject.] Imagine how a farmer with a lot of children could utilise this industry. It would be nice light employment for the youngsters. Such labour is suitable for them, and I am not one of those who think children should do nothing. All my children do something, and it is the worst thing in the world to keep them idle.

Question: Why should we spend money in fostering olive culture, etc.?

Mr. Connell: Because once we have brought that knowledge to the colony we can start 50,000 people with it, who will make a living without our assistance. We only give them the knowledge by which they will produce great wealth to the country. On the other hand, in the case of those protected industries like boot manufactures, etc., we have to keep giving £34 10s 3d a head to every operative per annum without end.

An Elector: What shall we do with our leather then?

Mr. Connell: Why, export it; send it where it can be manufactured more cheaply.

Question: What is the rate of wages where the silk industry is carried on?

Mr. Connell: The wages are very much lower than in New Zealand. There is something, however, in the atmosphere of New Zealand so favourable to the silkworm that there is not a climate in the world to compete with it in that respect. In France or China, if there is a difference during the twenty four eours of even I think under ten (possibly five) degrees in certain seasons of the year in the temperature, it kills the worm. In New Zealand, however, there may be a difference of forty degrees, and all the worm does is to knock its tail about a little and seem as if he liked it. (Laughter.) In the south of France and in Italy the population of course are very backward, and you may see them in some parts of Europe to this day ploughing the ground by means of an old stick drawn by a bullock. They live in a state of degradation, but if they are able to do well with the silk industry we ought to be able to do better. They have page 17 not the education, enterprise, or grit that New Zealand colonists have. I heard Mr Federli in Dunedin pointing out that though labour was cheap in those countries yet by our possession of improved processes one man here could do as much as six, seven, or eight of them. And the silk industry is not a thing that takes up one's whole time; it works in beautifully with other industries, and can be attended to on wet days and at odd times. Every man might have an olive plantation and also cultivate the silk industry in connection with his other work. Attention to these and suchlike additional aids are the things that make the farm pay. I know a man who lives in the province of Auckland on 30 acres of land, and who lives like a fighting-cock and rears a large family. That is a great deal better than starving for a living in town. The whole family live in comfort, raising their own food, and are able to put a turkey on the table when they feel inclined, and the whole thing is done on the 30 acres of land. I consider that man a noble man. (Laughter.) There is no nonsense about it, he feels better for it. It is work under the air of heaven, and it is a wicked thing to take and shut men up in pestiferous factories. (Laughter.)

Mr Archibald: With regard to tea and sugar, are you in favour of duties on tea and sugar, rather than allow exemptions under the Property Tax?

Mr Connell: If there should be any additional taxation required, it is these very two sources I would go for—tea and sugar and the £500 exemption. This principle of saying that the men who have saved money are to be exempted altogether, is unsound. We ought all to be in it.

Mr Cranwell: Would you be in favour of an Income Tax in preference to a Properly Tax?

Mr Connell: Theoretically, I consider the Income Tax preferable to the Property Tax, and even practically, so far as I am concerned, and if the thing could be done by the mere passing of a bill without putting us to any loss, I would be found supporting it. But the position is this: The Property Tax has been imposed by law, and an enormous amount of machinery has been erected and set in motion at very large expense for its working. Now, if you by a sudden turn of the wheel—by some resolution, bring in an Income Tax, that would mean, for the first year, an entire waste of this vast expenditure, and with this loss to make up we should have to face the new tax. But I say we have fifty things to do in Wellington that we shall not be able to undertake for want of time, and therefore, while these other more important things remain to do, I would not replace the Property Tax, although I know it is doing injury. Stout's graduated Property Tax is perfect nonsense. I would rather lower the tax and do away with the exemptions. The tax is ruining the country to my certain knowledge. I have advices in my own office from gentlemen, saying they prefer taking their money away to other places. The effect we will feel very soon.

Mr Shepherd: How would you find employment for the people of the colony?

Mr Connell: I think I have stated my views pretty fully on the wages question to the unemployed. You will shortly see an address of mine to the unemployed which has been upon my business paper every day for five or six days. That address is now completed and in the hands of the printer at the present moment. When it comes out you will see in full my views on the unemployed. They did not give me a fair chance at the Opera House (laughter), to tell them all this. They howled at me with rather strong voices. (Renewed laughter.) I managed to deal with two out of the four classes of the unemployed, and when I had got so far I thought I had had enough of it. (Laughter.) I was dealing with the hardest parts of the subject first, and if they had waited for a little they would have found the rest easier for them. Generally speaking, I recognise that a great deal of distress and trial has fallen upon the working classes by reason of the ridiculous idea that you can keep wages up by resolutions of the unemployed, or by a bill; but you cannot do it. It is by a law of nature that the unemployed are being thrown out every day, and the only cure for it is a fall of wages, which must be recognised as an inevitable necessity. And once that has taken place they will be re absorbed almost immediately, and there will be an immediate tendency again to a rise. In the meantime, a Urge amount of the distress, where it is acute, will be met by the colonists, but as for admitting that the Government is bound to find work for the unemployed, I will never admit it. The unemployed may take this individual and tear him in pieces, but I will never admit it.

Mr. Shepherd: How can you, as a freetrader, account for the fact that the Government of a freetrade colony like New South Wales recently found employment for 300 or 400?

Mr. Connell: It is not my business to justify the New South Wales Government; I have to justify myself. If they do anything: so foolish as to admit the claim of large bodies of the unemployed to work at the expense of the taxpayers, I should question their political sense.

Mr. Shepherd: Can you explain the telegraphed report in to-night's Star that Sir Henry Parkes, at Orange, declared page 18 his intention to put on direct taxation so as to eliminate all protection duties?

Mr. Connell: I would agree with Sir Henry Parkes as to the advisability, theoretically, of removing every particle of duty applied to protected articles, such as boots and shoes, clothing, and so on. That is my theory, and what I would do if I were a free man. I will tell you what stops me. It is not because I am afraid of losing your votes, but because I do not think it right. A large number of men have engaged in various industries on the faith of a 15 per cent, duty, and because we find that already too heavy I will never consent to their being raised one per cent. But men have been induced to engage in these artificial industries which were never contemplated by the laws of nature, and therefore I am hindered by my sense of right from getting back all the money I would like to. The duties must be taken off if we can reduce them at all, only very gradually and after considerable notice.

Mr. Shepherd: Though you are a freetrader you would give bonuses of from 5 to 10 per cent?

Mr Connell: There is nothing inconsistent there with free-trade, which merely means that there shall be no tariff restrictions between the commerce of countries, but is is quite competent for us to spend millions if we choose to do so, to find out our best industries.

Mr. Shepherd: Mow do you propose to raise the money to pay these bonuses?

Mr. Connell: I would raise it as part of the ordinary revenue of the country. If you wish me to expound to you all the sources of revenue, I can do it, because I have it are my fingers' ends, but I think the hour is rather late. (Laughter and applause.)

Mr. Shepherd: How do you propose to raise the two millions of revenue which would be lost by throwing open the ports?

Mr. Connell: In the first place, I stated that I did not intend to throw open the ports, and in addition I said that the articles not produced in the country are the articles to be taxed. I would put a tax for revenue purposes on the things we cannot produce in New Zealand, because then every halfpenny of the tax results in revenue, but I absolutely refuse to tax things, making them dearer to me without producing any revenue at all.

Mr Shepherd: And you would raise the price of tea and sugar?

Mr Connell: No. If we submit to a tax of 3d on tea, and 1d on sugar, we raise a quarter of a million sterling on these two lines. You will see the importance of is; And I do not think it would be a serious hardship to any working man in the colony. If tea were 1s 11d instead of 1s 8d, and sugar 3½d instead of 2½d, he would just use a little less, and we would get a quarter of a million, instead of disorganising the country and ruining trade by meddling extensively with the tariff upon a large number of articles. I put this merely as an illustration. I do not think additional taxation ought to be required, but if it is required, I should advocate say a 1d or 1½d on tea, and ½d on sugar, most probably in preference to an increase of property tax or protective duties.

Mr Shepherd: Why should you not prefer putting the tax on clothing, instead of on tea which cannot be manufactured here?

Mr Connell: I will give you an illustration. A man comes up to me with some beautiful cloth of local manufacture, and asks me to patronise him. He tells me that the price of a suit will be £7. I see another man who has English cloth, and who offers to make me a suit of it, also for £7. If they are equally good, nine men out of ten will go at once for the colonial manufacture. With me, if they are exactly the same money and quality, I would always go for the English article, for the simple reason that there is 15 per cent, duty on the English goods, which makes 21s for the suit, and that 21s goes to swell the Government revenue. But, mark you, if I buy the Mosgiel suit, the Government docs not get the 21s, and some fine morning a man bangs at my door and asks me for 21s in the shape of a property tax, or some other tax He says to me, "If you had bought that English suit, 21s would have come to us. We can't do without it, and you must stump up." (Loud applause.)

Mr Shepherd: That is a very good argument of Mr Connell's. At the same time while he says 21s pays duty, the other £5 19s goes out of the country.

Mr Connell: That is paid away.

Mr Shepherd: It goes to England.

Mr Connell: Not at all; that is a total fallacy.

The Chairman: What would become of the man who made the colonial tweed if people like Mr Connell would only buy the English article?

Mr Connell: I will tell you. Instead of shutting himself up in a miserable place weaving tweed, he would go out and grow olives, or follow mining or some other true native industry.

Mr Cranwell: Does your observation not lead you to see that competition reduces prices?

Mr Connell: That is a very favourite argument with manufacturers, but it is not a fact. They always come and say, "Oh, we want just a little encouragement; put on a duty for a few years so that we may get a start." But take cloth; there has been a duty of 15 per cent, on it for ten years past, and I tell you for a positive fact that the profits made in consequence of that page 19 15 per cent, duty were so large in the Mosgiel factory that they found a difficulty in writing out their balance-sheets, but they managed to slip the profits into their pockets wholesale by writing off large amounts for depreciation. They knew that if they divided 20 per cent, among the shareholders they would frighten the simple fools who were paying the money—that is the taxpayers, and the consequence was that they put the surplus profits down to depreciation account. It is a fine account. I know all about it. (Laughter and applause.) If competition does bring the prices down why is it that instead of asking us to turn the 15 per cent, duties into 25 per cent, the manufactures do not ask us to bring it down to 10 per cent, which they would do if the prices were lowered, but in fact, they are not lowered.

Mr. Cranwell: Are they making the same profits now?

Mr. Connell: They are not making the same gigantic profits, but as I have already said the 15 per cent, duty is still lost to the colony. No man has a right to say to me "Protect me." I would naturally reply to him, "Why should I? Go away and make your own living, and don't come begging to me."

By way of answer to a further question by Mr. Shepherd, Mr. Connell read some interesting extracts on protection as a cure for depression, from a book by George Baden Powell, who, he said, was one of the highest authorities in England on the question of Protection as a cure for depression, particularly as applied to the colonies.

Mr. Connell (to Mr. Shepherd): If you like I will lend you the book. It is worth reading, and would be certain to convert you to sound economical ideas on the subject of protective duties. (Laughter.)

The Chairman: As the questions seem now to have finished, I have two jokes here which I have reserved to the last. I think we may be satisfied with one of them.

The Chairman then turned towards Mr. Connell with a slip of paper in his hand, and read out, "How is the old mane?" (Roars of laughter.)

Mr. Connell: Allow me to say that I reply to that question with the greatest pleasure. The old mare which I have ridden for over eleven years is very jolly, and so am I. (Laughter and applause.)

Mr. Shepherd: I beg to rise to propose a vote of thanks to Mr. Connell for his address. We have all enjoyed it. It was very interesting and instructive, and although I do not agree with Mr. Connell on the points of Protection and Free-trade, still I must admit that he has a good deal of commonsense opinions in his nut. Whether be is elected or not, is a point that will remain for the ballot-box to decide. I do not wish to propose a vote of confidence, as I have no desire that Mr. Connell should go away feeling that the meeting is against him.

Mr Connell: Oh, don't spare me.

Mr. Archibald: I beg to second the resolution. I have had very great pleasure in hearing Mr. Connell to-night. In fact he is a better man than I thought he was, I must confess I cannot, however, agree with his views.

Mr Abbott: Mr Connell has proved himself tonight to be so good a man, that I think he has fully earned our faith and confidence, and I fancy that this will be the result of his contest for Eden. Of course there have been some melancholy scenes associated with Mr Connell's candidature in the past, but I am pretty sure that he will gain your esteem and confidence. I will now test the feeling of this meeting by moving an amendment to the proposed vote of thanks. I therefore beg to move, "That this meeting tenders Mr Connell a vote of thanks and confidence." I Applause.)

Mr B. Carbines: I beg to second the amendment.

The Chairman then called for the usual show of hands and announced the result to be, for the amendment, 18; for the motion, 20. He therefore declared the vote of thanks carried.

Mr Connell: I beg to move a vote of thanks to the Chairman for the impartial and satisfactory manner in which he has carried out his duties.

The vote was passed and the assemblage dispersed.