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SPUC: "When I was a Girl..."

Interview with SPUC President Marilyn Pryor

by Caroline Massof

What are the aims of your organisation?

Our aims are to provide adequate medical, social protection for the unborn child, and to spread information concerning the unborn child. Also, to provide proper care for women facing a pregnancy. We have a long term project of improving the needs of children.

How do you carry out these aims?

We try to educate people on the scientific fact that every time a woman is pregnant she is carrying a child within her, and to bring across that it is a complete living, human being. This is one of the main things - to educate people on the scientific facts of the whole abortion issue. We certainly did this with the Royal Commission and they judged the facts we put to them in a fair and proper way. Also in terms of Members of Parliament, we try to get the facts across to them; the media is the same.

We have a very large organisation - one of the biggest in the country, with a membership of 50,000 financial members, and 68 branches throughout the country.

"The Royal Commission. . . judged the facts we put to them in a fair and proper way."

Everyone in the society is working towards meeting the needs of disadvantaged children. We provide back-up groups working to help pregnant women with difficulties.

Do you think it is democratic that the Government passed an abortion law which is (according to the opinion polls) against the wishes of the NZ people?

The legislation is not against the wishes of the majority of NZ people. If you studied all of the public opinion surveys, you will find most New Zealanders reject abortion on demand. Just recently the society commissioned a survey which found that only 22% of the people questioned were in favour of abortion on demand, with 6% of people saying they did not think abortions should be performed under any circumstances.

Do you disagree with the opinion that the law is restrictive at the moment?

Yes definitely. Wellington Hospital will be doing 420 abortions this year. In 1969 they performed only 13. Actually the law is being interpreted in a very liberal way. It is a compromise between the views of my society and those who want abortion on demand.

How do you explain the fact that there are not enough certified consultants?

Well, that's very easy - first of all there is no one group of doctors who don't want any restrictions on the number of abortions performed, they're not going to do anything to make the law work. Then there's another group who have so much respect for human life they are not going to authorise even one death. A third group are so sick of the whole issue they don't want to have anything to do with it, and finally we have more doctors who are completely misled about the true intent of the law, and think that because they hold a particular view, they are excluded from becoming certified consultants.

The purpose of the law was to balance the rights of the unborn child with the rights of the mother and provide for circumstances where a pregnancy would be extremely dangerous to the mother's health.

What does SPUC think of the Repeal petition recently presented to Parliament?

The Repeal petition has been based on the fact that many New Zealanders have been seriously misinformed as to the true intent of the law. The Repeal petition is aimed at liberalising the availability of abortions in this country. If you repeal the present law, the Acts Interpretations Act will tell you that there would be no abortion laws in this country at all - abortion on demand. If the aim of Repeal was to return to the status quo, the Royal Commission found that the law as it was, was a virtual abortion on demand situation. They said that any woman not more than 12 weeks pregnant could virtually get an abortion anytime.

"For Repeal to say they are not trying to get abortion on request is to try to deceive the people."

If the John Kirk law was what Repeal was seeking then that is abortion on demand also. For Repeal to say that they are not trying to get abortion on request is to try and deceive the people. That's why I say Repeal is based on deceit.

A survey of the General Practitioners Assn. showed that 80% of that group were happy to refer women to the Remuera Abortion Clinic. How do you explain this?

The General Practitioners Assn. is only a small number of practitioners originally set up under the name of Dr. Eric Geiringer, now run by his wife Dr Carol Shand and Dr David Minute. It represents a good body of practitioners, but it certainly doesn't represent NZ GP's on the whole.

The GP's Association seems to promote abortions on request up to the first 12 weeks of pregnancies. I would say a large number of doctors are certainly not happy to refer patients to the abortion clinic, but do so rather reluctantly because the patients insist on going through with the termination.

The pro-choice abortion lobby accuses your organisation of seeing women as breeding machines. Do you personally believe that every women's primary vocation is motherhood?

No, I don't think it is the primary vocation, but being a mother is a privilege and it was the most important part of my own life, but I don't see women as breeding machines.

What is SPUC's policy on contraception?

The Society has no policy on contraception. Abortion is a matter of public morality, contraception is a matter of private morality.

How do you personally view the IUD?

I personally view it as abortifunctive. If it is used as a contraceptive then it is a matter of private morality, but if it is used to prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg then it is an abortifunctive. I am not in favour of the IUD at all.

"I have yet to meet a woman who didn't love her baby once it was born."

Why do you think unwanted pregnancies occur in New Zealand?

It is my experience as a suburban mother and housewife, that many women found they had a pregnancy they had not planned, and yet I have yet to meet a woman that didn't love her baby once it was born.'

Why do you think women have unplanned pregnancies?

A woman may find she's having a baby she didn't want or plan to have. Every time a woman has intercourse, there is that risk.

Do you think young people should be educated about contraceptives?

The more we promote the idea of contraceptives the greater the number of exnuptial babies there are. I think we are living in a society that is promoting a far different ethical attitude to young people. When I was a girl our mothers were the best contraceptive.

"When I was a girl our mothers were the best contraceptives."

What is your organisation doing to help women with unwanted pregnancies?

The Society has a full welfare programme. We have always recognised that some women have difficulties in pregnancies. We have welfare groups throughout New Zealand. A lot of people would not come to an organisation such as ours for help, as many people think we are only concerned about the unborn child, which is just not true.

Your organisation has been accused of using the strong organisation, structure and financial support of the Catholic Church in carrying out its activities. Is this true?

No, not at all, I think this is an insult to all good New Zealanders who believe in the right to life on a humanitarian basis. The Catholic Church as a group, recognises the value of human life, and wants it to be protected, but a tremedous amount of support comes from all types of churches.

Do you get any financial support from the Church?

No. Well perhaps some money. We got $5000.

It was quoted as $7000 by Des Dalgety. How many of your members are Catholic?

I have no idea, we do not ask people their religion. Besides this is really a human rights issue. Who lives, who dies, and who decides. It has nothing to do with religious philosophy, even if it is true that the Catholic Church sees it clearly.

-Do you get any financial support from the Church?

"No. Well perhaps some money. We got $5000."

Why do you think this idea concerning the Catholic Church was started in the first place?

Those who want to destroy what we are doing want to capitalize on any anti-Catholic feeling that there is. People hoe in on the Catholic Church because they know there is a residue of anti-Catholic feelings.

How can students become involved in the activities of your organisation?

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There is a Liferight Organisation here at University, set up quite separate from SPUC in order to get a pro-life voice here on campus.

A certain organisation has stated that you went to a Dr Wainer from the Fertility Control Clinic in Melbourne recently to discuss abortion, under the guise of being a WEL (Womens' Electoral Lobby) member. Is this true?

Yes, this is quite true, but it was a purely private visit, and a completely private conversation took place. When I went to the Fertility Control Clinic I wanted to find out how many New Zealand women were going to the Clinic.

Why did you approach the FCC as a member of WEL, since you are not a financial member, and not as a member of SPUC?

I did not go as member of SPUC but as a private citizen. If I had gone and said I was from SPUC they probably wouldn't have told me what I wished to know.

In a press clipping from Australia it was stated. . the New Zealand lady seemed impressed' said Dr Wainer, 'and she said she would refer these suggestions to SOS . . '". Have you referred any suggestions to the organisation SOS (Save Our Sisters), in line with that statement?

All I can say is that that press statement is a lie, I made no such comment.

Would you like to comment on the new liberal abortion laws recently passed in the officially Roman Catholic country Italy?

They are absolutely appalling. In the end the Italian people will wake up, like everyone else does, and realise that it is wrong. In Europe (Eastern) they realised it was bad for women, and the health of society. The Italian people will eventually go back to a proper law.

Why do you think they were passed in the first place?

Because there is a strong Communist delegation flourishing.

"Our goals will never be achieved until we have reached the stage of no abortions being performed in this country."

Do you feel SPUC's goal has been achieved by the new laws in New Zealand'

Our goals will never be achieved until we have reached the stage of no abortions being performed in this country. That will come about when medical science has reached the stage where pregnancies are no longer a threat to the mother. When we've reached that stage the whole of the community will recognise that it is wrong to destroy another human life. We are only going to go as far as saying that an abortion should be carried out if the pregnancy is a threat to the woman's life, and that she can choose whether she is prepared to sacrifice her life for the life of the child. My own personal view is that I have reached a stage where abortions are never right but I don't think the law can interfere in the situation I just mentioned. If you're going to allow things like mental health, you are going to have doctors interpreting such thing any way they like.