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NZ's investment in feudalism

Salient reporter, Colin Feslier, talks to Bishop Patelisio Finau of Tonga.

Salient: What do you see as Tonga 's social and economic position at the moment?

Finau: Economically we are very dependent on overseas aid and I cannot sec us being self-reliant for many years to come unless we learn to work with what we already have, rather than patterning ourselves on western development.

Would if be fair to describe Tonga as a feudal country?

Yes, very much so.

Do you feel Tonga is moving away from feudalism?

Well, I feel it is moving very slowly away from the feudal system, but there is pressure from a sort of middle class. These people have had a better education and may have done well in the business line. So besides the nobility and the mass of the people, there is group in between that is getting very noticeable, because of their education and the wealth they have obtained through this. I think this is a sign that Tonga is becoming more democratic as this pressure group grows and makes itself fell, but otherwise there is resistance to change and pressure to preserve feudalism and all its consequences. Unless there are opportunities for the Tongan people to build a real democratic society, where the people have more say in government, and places for people who were not just born into power, we will have difficulties in the future.

What wilt the reaction of Tonga's 'feudal elite' be to attempts to change the social structure of Tonga? Can you sec them giving up their power willingly ?

Historically, we have yet to see a feudal system give way to a more democratic form that gives more power to the people peacefully. The normal reaction is to tighten your hold and the people as a whole experience greater oppression. I hope, and I pray that there is still time to bring understanding, and I think this is the job of the Church, to bring the ruling class to a human understanding, a Christian understanding of the brotherhood of man and man, especially of the same race, and to really live the Christianity we preach — concern for your brother, not only material concern, but concern that my brother and your brother is able to make decisions, to think for himself, to help others. I doubt very much whether the people who rule in Tonga at the moment would give more say, more power to the great mass of the people. I doubt, yet I am a Christian and I hope. Therefore I do what I can to bring this about. Men have human hearts, they are human beings and I think we should be working towards this brotherhood of man, not only in words, but in practice.

Do you feel that tourism has a role in the development of Tonga?

Tourism certainly brings in money which helps our people, especially through the local industries of mat and tapa making, basket weaving, carving and so on. In this way money comes to "the little people" and at the same time helps them to educate their children. From the economic point of view this is better than what we have had but we are also very much aware that tourism brings in other problems. I think in the western world people are very much aware and fearful of being enslaved and oppressed by materialism and I fear that our people can make the mistake of thinking that the only think that matters is getting money. I hope that we do become aware of the spiritual and moral issues surrounding tourism and that we do something about it.

Would you then discourage mass sightseeing tourism?

Yes, I would discourage it because I think that people coming in like that do have not have a good appreciation and understanding of Tonga. They come out of the plane and run around taking pictures, pass through a few villages, see a dance or two on a marae. How much of Tonga can they understand? What really happens is that we put on a show for them, and the show is not the real Tonga. I feel there is much to be gained by people visiting our country in other ways, especially by people in VSA work. They have a tremendous understanding of the place compared with day tourists who are the majority of people visiting Tonga. It lakes time to understand people and places, and it works both ways. Our people need lime to appreciate the visitors.

You mentioned aid from overseas as being very important to Tonga's development for some time to come. What sort of aid do you need?

I would say aid that helps people to understand their local situation better, to appreciate what they have and then to try to develop themselves personally and materially, along the lines of their own aims — they must control what they are aiming at rather than just putting a lot of money into so-called western development. Development along western lines has been tried in many developing and Third World countries and doesn't seem to work, just running after something that's impossible for the people. This happened in Tanzania where people thought if only we work hard we will be developed as the countries in Europe'. They worked ten times as hard and they find themselves poorer today than when they started. I think we have-to appreciate our own situation, work with what we have and try to develop. We cannot hope to ape western development as in Australia and New Zealand — we have to rind our own standard because when it comes to raw materials, we just don't have any. The people know we haven't got it but we have to do what we can. Aid from overseas could go on research. We must really find out the things which are conducive to our own development rather than just trying to produce goods, for we find that that there are no markets or that countries generally do not want what we have a surplus of. I think it is such a vast question, there is a need for some sort of co-ordinating body, so that when you produce this or that item, there is a market for them.

What was your reaction to the recent arrests in Auckland of Tongans?

My reaction? I think it did not befit New Zealand. I think I know a bit about New Zealand, and to act like that was unbelievable, not like the New Zealand I grew up to understand. The arrests were something foreign to New Zealand. The reaction of the people at home was a mixed one and they began to fear New Zealand. The majority of the people knew little of New Zealand, just that it was 'out there somewhere' and was a place to get work. When a thing like this happens I would say that the first reaction is fear. Some people in Tonga were up in arms about this, they did not like these few Tongans making a bad name for Tonga. They come and misbehave in New Zealand and therefore Tonga is not liked in New Zealand. So I would say this is a real mixed reaction.

Do you feel that there will be Tongans coming to New Zealand for some time?

I am praying and hoping that New Zealand will be open enough to receive Tongans both on temporary permits and as permanent citizens. I feel that this is a part of the aid that New Zealand can give us. The opportunity for work in New Zealand seems to be great so the people coming from the Islands are not taking jobs from New Zealanders. They are helping to boost New Zealand's trade and I hope that the opportunity will be there for people to come over a longer term period, at least six months, so that, after payment of expenses, fares, board and so on, the people can go back home with a hand to climb with, to try to do something for themselves. Aid is not just given to him because he has worked worked hard — I feel that most of the people who do come over do work hard — and the feeling of human dignity, the feeling that you have achieved something, you say now that you've got this money, you can do something when you go home whether it is to build a house for yourself, a better house, more in line with the dignity of a man, or to do what many of them do and go back and open a little shop or buy a taxi, or catch more fish for the market. I feel with this money which they earn they can make decisions, decisions responsible for their life, something which they never had before. Before they had to depend so much on relatives — assisted in a way that independence is impossible. Living together, they depend on one another, living on another man's properly. In such conditions you are not able to be a real master, responsible for yourself to develop yourself, materially and by implication, spiritually as well.

What sort of aid is New Zealand giving to Tonga, at the moment?

Well, I think whether you realise it or not, immigration, people coming in to work, although at present New Zealand does not give Tongans permits to work, is a form of aid. New Zealand does give money to Tonga — I believe there is some promise of giving money to build a new Parliament building for Tonga. I question very much whether this is real aid, whether it is a priority. When you look at the number of things to be done in Tonga, a feudal country, you put up a Parliament. New Zealand could give money to various projects in agriculture but I feel it should be more than that. There should be research made into this kind of aid, on the part of New Zealand to find out whether this aid would be really beneficial to many people in Tonga or only a few.

We in Tonga should be trying to make our needs felt, to make our needs known by the people who come to negotiate with our Government. I think also at the same time there should be consideration for the social system that we have. The kind of separation between church and state, so that the church is not allowed to speak 'so-called 'secular' subjects. There is the feeling mat it's the job of government. I feel that delegations from New Zealand should make it their business to speak to various groups in Tonga and not just the government, because I feel they do not always provide the overall good for the Majority of our people, but rather hold on to the present set-up and try to keep that going.

I hope that New Zealand will be able to accept Tongans as permanent residents, because when you consider the lack of land and employment these people have a right to migrate from Tonga. I believe that the government is not at all pleased with this, and of course it's natural for a government in a feudal system to be concerned because it might find itself with no serfs, no servants. I think it's up to countries like New Zealand, democratic and concerned for human dignity and rights, to open themselves to the people of countries in less fortunate situations.

What do you see as the role of foreign investment in Tonga?

In the past overseas investment was discouraged in Tonga because of the protective clauses made by the government and I think that in many ways these were good measures. They were designed to protect the interests of Tonga and its people and to stop any wealth that Tonga may have being drained off. Now the big firms for example, Maurice Hedstrom and Burns Philip are in Tonga and there seems to be an casing of these restrictions so as to encourage outside investment. 1 would like to see good studies made of this especially by Tonga itself — we should make studies of the type of investment that would benefit us in Tonga — find out what we need and see if these people are interested and encourage them to invest in Tonga.

One of the great contributions that New Zealand and other aiding countries could make to the Islands is to use some of this money to research what type of investment would benefit us to develop more in our own way rather than repeating the same project going on in New Zealand or Australia.

I feel that governments involved in investments in the Islands should move along these lines of research. If this aid is to be true aid it must be the so-called aid that profits the 'aiding' countries or companies at the expense of the people of the country receiving the aid. What we should really mean by aid is helping a poor fellow human. I think there is both a human dimension and a Christian dimension — are you going to help yourself, or help your poor brother out there to try and help himself to better his condition? And in time the people should not only run but they should also own the concern that has been set up.

Do you see very much possibility of companies undertaking such investment?

With a human heart, with a Christian heart, the impossible becomes possible. Can we just leave it for our Marxist friends to do it for us?