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Proceedings of of the Kohimarama Conference, Comprising Nos. 13 to 18 of the "Maori Messenger."

Tuesday, July 24, 1860

Tuesday, July 24, 1860.

The Native Secretary made a few introductory observations. He adverted again lo His Excellency's Messages, Nos. 2 and 3, and invited the chiefs to express freely their opinions on the subjects embraced therein.

Te Rira Porutu, (Ngatiawa,) Wellington: Listen chiefs of the Conference! I was at Port Nicholson (Wellington) when I heard the bell of the Governor calling me to come to the sale of his goods. I came, and I have witnessed the sale. I have seen the evil of the Maori sale. I have nothing else to say.

Mr. McLean requested him to proceed with the remarks he had commenced on a previous day.

Te Rira continued: Now, respecting the land, do you hearken! With some lands there is difficulty; others are easily settled. I have no lands of which to speak.

Hohepa interposed: Rira explain what you said to Mr. McLean.

Te Rira: The words of Maories do not always agree.

Tamihana Te Rauparaha asked: Rira, have you nothing to say about Taranaki ?

Te Rira (in reply): I have nothing to say about that. I leave the speaking for you (of the Conference).

Wiremu Tamihana Te Neke, (Ngatiawa,) Wellington: Listen Pakehas! Listen also chiefs of the runanga. I will answer the public statement made by Mr. McLean on Thursday of last week (speech on the Waitara question), respecting the assent given by te Awe, Wiremu Kingi, and Wi Tikao to the sale of Waitara to the Pakeha. I do not understand this. I did not hear the assent given for the sale of Waitara. I remember when Wremu Kingi, Mohi Tohiroa, and Tuarau went to Aropaoa. The "Tory" is the name of the vessel they went in from Kaputi. We, Tohiroa, Tuainane, and Te Matoa remained at Tahoramorea in the presence of Rangihaeata and Te Rauparaha. Why did page 9 not Wirerau Kingi and Te Awe declare publicly their consent to the sale of Waitara, in order that all the chiefs residing at Waikanae who had claims at Waitara might hear? I never heard of that consent of theirs: the only thing I heard of was Wakefield's purchase: that I did hear about. The second thing I heard of was Potatau's sale; also the dispute between Wi Kingi and kati at the Bay of Islands. I heard of that also. I heard of Governor FitzRoy's boundary, of which Mr. MeLean has spoken: the Taniwha to the North, and Ngamotu to the South (were the points fixed). But the statement made that the payment for Waitara was paid, part of it at Waitara and the other part at Kaputi, I did not hear. [Mr. McLean here interposed and said that he had never stated that the payment was given at Waitara: what he said was that the payment was given at Ngamotu.] The only distribution of payment which I witnessed was by Captain Rhodes at Waikanae for land at Waikanae. If Wiremu Kingi and Te Awe had conseuted to the sale of Waitara, how is it that they do not remember the transaction? How is it thai he (Wi Kingi) returned to Waitara? His father Reretawhangawhanga expressed a desire that he should return to waitara. He is dead: Wi Kingi still lives. After this we went to Port Nicholsou and there assembled in the presence of Governor Grey. The object of our visit was to sell Waikanae to him. Governor Grey addressed William King and said, "Give (or sell) me Waitara." He did not consent. Governor Grey asked William King the second time, "Give me Waitara." He did not consent, but [unclear: said] to him, "I will keep Waitara: you take Waikanae." Neither consented to the other's proposal. William King did not agree that waitara should be sold. Now the second time the subject was brought up was when Governor Grey visited Taranaki in the steamer(Inflexible). Wiremu Kingi, Te Puni and others were with him. They argued the matter there. Governor Grey did not yield to Wiremu Kingi and William King did not yield to Governor Grey.

The boundary fixed by Governor FitzRoy is clear. Two things are not quite so clear: First, the agreement of Wiremu Kingi and Te Awe at Aropaoa; secondly, the distribution of payment. I did not hear of these. Now respectiug the sale of Potatau: I will ask you a question on that subject. Did this law come from England, or from what other place? that paymeat should be given for the dead killed on another's land. Did this law come from England, or whence was it? Is it page 10 from the Treaty of Waitangi, or whence is this! law? Enough on that subject.

I will now refer to the words raked up by Mr. McLean respecting the totaras which he states were claimed by Teira alone. I am clear on that point. Tokahuruhuru is the totara referred to. The man's name was Pouto Kino. It was drifted (by the flood) on to his plantation, and for this reason he claimed the totara of Waitara. If it had been drifted on to the plantation of any other person, he would not have claimed it. As to the statement that I (my tribe) was a cultivator of kumara and taro for him, I reply, I am from Waitara: I did not see it; I was born at Waitara.

Listen, chiefs of this runanga! One thing I did see—the food presented to Ropoama, when he married the grand-daughter of Rauakitua, consisting of lampreys. I had a share in the preparation of that food, that is to say, I laboured. My (eel) pa was Papanui. He (Teira) had not an exclusive right to the lampreys that were prepared. It has been stated that "the lampreys of Waitara were te Teira's alone." No! He had a right and I had a right; Wiremu Kingi also had a right. Te Teira claimed the upper part of the river, Wiremu Kingi the lower part. Wiremu Kingi claimed the following (eel) pas: Pupukura, te Rira, and te Kahikatea. Now I know Te Teira's (eel) pa, namely, Te Wharariki.

With regard to the statement that Enoka was ejected by Ropoama from the land, I know about that. He came in his own canoe; others came in their canoes. (This refers to the early immigration.) The name of his canoe was Kapakapanui; my canoe's name was te Rangaranga. I am certain about that. When they returned from a war expedition they brought with them Pakawera and Wharepuni. I know the origin of the name of Ngatituaho. The foundation for this name was Tuahopere. His descendants were Whataiwi and his people; his son was Karewataranui; Karewataranui's descendant was Te Manuwhiri, that is to say, Patukakariki, who is now with William King holding land. Nopera has his claim: he also is with william King holding the land. After Tuahopere was Hoetu. His offspring were Tuhata, Wiremu Te Koihua and Epiha Poiha. They claim the same piece of land. After him (Hoetu) was Kurukuru; Kurukuru begat Te Aitu; Te Aitu begat Marama, and I, who now stand here, am his son. After him (Kurukuru) came Urumoairaka; his was Paremaori; his was Huriwhenua. These are the page 11 roots of the (tribe) named Ngatituaho. That is all. My speech ends here.

Horomona Toremi. (Ngatiraukawa), Otaki: Mr. McLean, listen attentively to my speech! Chief of the Conference, listen! I agree to the words of the Governor. Now hearken you! That piece of land (Aropaoa) belonged to Ngatitoa. Ngatiawa assumed, the right of selling Aropaoa. Manawatu was sold by the Ngatiraukawa. When Te Rauparaha saw this he was vexed that his lands should be sold by interfering tribes. He said, Whither shall I flee? He crossed (the Straits) to Wairau and took possession of the lands sold by the Ngatiawa. When the Pakehas saw that he took possession of lands sold to them by the Ngatiawa, they fell upon te Rauparaha. He retaliated and the Pakehas fell. When the Pakehas saw their error and that the land belonged to Te Rauparaha, they compromised the matter and set it at rest. Manawatu was sold. Hukiki received the payment. Paora Taikapurua took possession of both the land and the payment. This is the second (offence). They withheld the land. It remained so till the time of Mr. Spain. Mr. Spain demanded the land. Paora would not give it up. He held both the payment and the land. Governor Grey arrived. He asked, "Where is the consideration for the property of the Pakeha"? I then gave over that land upon which Mr. Burr now resides. That claim was satisfied. After this came Governor Browne. He saw that the Pakeha's property was lost (that is, that the land did not compensate for the consideration given). He proposed that the portion which was left should be properly purchased.

Port Nicholson had been sold by Ngatiawa. They then sold Taranaki. The boundary was at Mokau: it was Mr. Spain who fixed it at Parininihi and Te Taniwha. I therefore concluded that Ngatiawa had sold their lands to the Pakeha. Potatau saw this and sold the very same land: the boundary of the land sold by Potatau extended as far as Piraunui. What is the use of preferring a claim to lands already sold, and taking forcible possession again? I have finished on that subject.

It is now seven years since Matene and I returned from Mr. Smith's, at Rotorua: our object was to unite the tribes under the Queen's Government I am now referring to Taiporohenui. Letters were written by Taranaki and Ngatiruanui to us, namely: to me, to Matene, to Tamihana, to Hukiki, and to Hori te Anaua—indeed to all of us—requesting us to go to Taiporohenui: we page 12 assembled: I suppose there were 500 men. The incantation by which the Pakehas were to fall was repeated: it was Ngahuru (Tamati Wiremu) who chanted it: it was as follows:—"Kati na ano he utu mou, ko te rarangi maunga e tu ki Taua-tawhiti: utaina atu Tapa-ngorengore ki Hauraki e rima ka ao te rangi, e waru ka ao te ra." This is the incautation by which the Pakeha was to fail. By this I knew that Taranaki had matured a plot. We entered the house. Paratene te Kopara arose, with a tomahawk having a twisted handle—the axe head turned one way and the handle another. It was not fixed in the usual manner. The handle was carved Showing us the axe he said—"Listen Ngatitoa, Ngatirukawa, Wanganui, and all the other tribes! This is Okurukuru." He then laid the axe before Hori Te Anaua. It was then brought to us. Matene rose up and said "What is Okurukuru?" He answered, "It is land we have sold to the pakeha: we wish to take possession of it again." Matene said, "Was that land paid for?" they replied "Yes" Matene said, "It is wrong; leave that for our Pakeha kinsmen. But, as to land not yet sold, retain that." I then rose (and said) "Friends, it is wrong. Return to the places not yet sold. Take your axe back," and the axe was thrown into the open space I then concluded that Taranaki was going wrong. I upheld the Governor's policy. Though I am only a dog, I submit my speech (to the Conference). After this meeting (Rawiri) Waiaua fell; after him Katatore; after that the war with Ihaia; after that the war between Te Teira and Wiremu Kingi, which has resulted in the death of Europeans. They are snapping at each other on their land. My words, which I have considered, are ended.

Te Manihera Te Ngatoro, (Ngatiawa,) Wellington:—Friends, this is what I have thought; the evil was first commenced (meaning the Taranaki war), since then the good (the Conference. Look you at the correctness of my speech. The evil came first, the good only now. Should it be proved that william King is in the wrong, the fault is his alone; but if the proceelings of Parris are wrong,, the fault will rest with him. Friends, fighting is an evil. I say let it be brought to a close. We approve of our own speeches (in favor of peace)but the pakehas oppose it. Listen all of you to my words! If, william King is in the wrong let all go and oppose him. What I wish is, that evil be page 13 put a stop to—that is to say fighting. My speech is ended.

Hukiki, (Ngatiraukawa.) Otaki:—Mr. McLean listen. Tamihana's speech is correct. It was an old agreement that the Pakeha should be our elder brother. Wharepouri and Te Puni consulted and sold Port Nicholson—after that Waikanae. Guns and Powder were received. After that Manawatu was offered. We considered: the matter in a runanga of 300 persons. The runanga agreed that I shou!d sell this land. I went to Port Nicholson. and saw Mr. Wakefield. He said to me. How much do you want? I replied, so many pounds, in money. The money was paid. He said, What else would you Iike? I answered, "Guns." I received the guns. He asked, What else? I answered, "Blankets." They were received. I requested more. but he would not consent. I then said to him, "Make a house for your goods; they will not be accepted. Let me receive sufficient to satisfy the 200 claimants, then the land will he sold." Mr. Wakefield returned (to Wellington). These goods were taken by force by some men and appropriated to their use. Afterwards Governor Grey arrived. He visited Otaki. Governor Grey spoke on many subjects. This Manawatu affair was then arranged. All the people agreed to the arrangement made by Governor Grey. I at that time repeated what I have already stated. I thought of the blankets and the guns which had been taken by the people, but it was then arranged and was settled amicably. I will now express my views about Taranaki. When Teira sold his land and laid down the parawai as a pledge, William King did not come to take up the challenge but went away. I have no authority to say, cease fighting. Let the Queen say to the Governor, "Cease fighting: although it is wrong, put a stop to it"; then it would be right. My speech is ended.

Pirikawau, (Ngatitoa,) Auckland:—Chiefs of the Conference: Te Raupahara has said that the control of the land is with him and Ngatiraakawa: also with Te Pehi and Ngallawa. Now chiefs of the Rununga, according to my opinion, I have the control over Te Rauparaba's goods (land): they are mine. Let me have the control because I am the horse who carried Te Rauparaha to Kapiti. (This refers to the assistance rendered by the Ngatitoa to Te Rauparaha in former times.) As to the Ngatirankawa, I know nothing about them.

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Te Ao-o-te-Rangi, (Tainui,) Waikato:—Friends, my speech is about land, and about the evils of the Maori people. Yonr words respecting Te Rauparaha and Te Waka are correet. My desire, also. is that we should be kind to the Pakeha, inasmuch as they are kind to us. Now, I am about to speak of land. Sirs, the pakehas, I will address you. I did not ask Mr. McLean a penny for land at Taranaki. It was Te Waka who conveyed Te Rauparaha to Kapiti. When Te Rauparaha fled, Potatau pursued him: therefore there was a good cause for Te Rauparaha's movement.

Also respecting Te Rangitake's affair, I approve of what has been said. If our opinions had been solicited by the Governor and Mr. McLean, then we should have carefully investigated Te. Rangitake's difficulty. In my opinion, I myself could have subdued Te Rangitake.

Te Rangitake's plan is towards recovering the lands in the possession of the Pakeha.

I now address you, Mr. McLean. This is my opinion, but you have heard it before. Waikato! Waikato is at peace! The hand of Waikato is unstained. The hand of Waikato is not polluted. Up to the third and fourth of the Govenors the hand (of Waikato) has remained unstained!

Mr. McLean, they are at peace. They are not working (evil: up to the present time they are not working evil). For this reason, I say, be kind to the Maories—be you indeed kind! Friend, (addressing Mr. McLean) let the good thoughts of the people be like mine. You shall be my treasure till my body is hidden (in the grave). Should you spring upon (attaek) me. then I shall lean over. If I (meaning the Maori) attack you, then you and I (individually) will be one. I shall not leave you to be overwhelmed by the Maori, Waikato will remain peaceful in future. The pole (flagstaff) which you and I saw was a thing erected without any purpose. It meant nothing. This is what I say: Be you the Pakeha kind to me and 1 shall be kind to you. This is the expression of my goodwill to the Pakeha. This people (the Pakeha) has become very precious to me—very precious: I like them, Mr. McLean, I Iike them! Now, another matter: I shall not steal (or embrace) their opinions. I shall not embrace the opinions of Waikato. Let Waikato have their own opinions; as for me, I shall cleave to the opinions I have just expressed to you. Now, Mr. McLean, cultivate carefully page 15 the plants in your garden, as I also shall cultivate the planta in my garden.

You Pakeha gentlemen should speak to. the Pakehas of low standing tutua). Speak to them, because they originate the evil. There is the evil, Mr. McLean. It rests with the Pakeha tutua, not with you. gentlemen, for we understand you. Now, then, let your attention be directed to those Pakeha tutua. Sir (Mr. McLean) cultivate the garden with care—drive the sheep gently. Drive the sheep with care, lest they be scattered by vicious dogs moving stealthily. Likewise, tend the fruits with care, that (the garden) may produce a people for you and Pakehas for me. Right opinions will guide us aright. This is the end of my speech to you. To-morrow I I shall rise agaiu (to speak). Listen you! I ithend to force my way into the Gorernor's housc that I may speak to him and he to me.

Tukihaumene (Ngatiwhakaue,) Rotorua:—Addressed to the last speaker)—I now, for the first time, hear your words. It is not manifest who is who (referring to the Maori King. The Queen and the Governor for me. Wherefore was this King set up? If this plan emanated from the Queen, it would have been right. Had the Queen instructed the Governor thus:—"O Governor, proceed to New Zealand and set up a king," then it would have been correct. I shall not turn in another direction. I am I watching the doings of Waikato. Hence my song. [The speaker then chanted a song.] This is my song for the Queen and the Governor. Wherefore did you utter those words? Do you suppose that Waikato will be peaceful? I will not say that Waikato intends to behave well to the Pakeha. My desire is to wear only the Queen's clothing. I have finished.

Tohi Te Ururangi (Ngatiwhakaue,) Rotorua: Having chanted a song, he spoke as follows:—I am not for division; I am for union. You speak of the land. I have nothing to say on that subject. I shall not consent to the (Maori) King—never. never! even though you—all of you—turn to persuade me, I will not consent.

(Addressing Mr. McLean:) As it is, I have nothing to say to you. I will embrace you till the day of my death. Should I, on that account, be stigmaitzed by anyone as a slave, it is well. I have nothing else to speak of but the law. The law will protect me. I have nothing else to speak of but my allegiance to the Queen. Although a large body turn to persuade, I will not consent to the Maori page 16 King. As to the proceedings of William King, they are wrong.

Kuruhou Rangimaru, (Ngatiraukawa,) Manawatu:—Great is the confusion of these speeches. This tribe gets up and that tribe gets up! I say, put an end to such proceedings; let each tribe return home and consider these things. There are other chiefs (besides us) who have remained at home. One thing only has had my attention, namely, the subdivision of the land, that each individual may occupy his own portion. Day after day and night after night they are discussing different subjects. Therefore Mr. McLean, I say send this people back to their homes that they may consider these things. Send us—Ngatitoa and Ngatiraukawa—this tribe and that tribe, to our respective places that we may deliberate on these subjects.

Tamati Waka Nene, (Ngapuhi,) Bay of Islands:—Listen, Chiefs of this Conference. Let all the speakers agree in favour of good will and peace. Yea. indeed, let there be but one subject—good will! Therefore I say, put an end to this clamour for a Maori King. Although this tribe and that tribe may cry "A King! a King!" no. I will not consent. In my opinion we shall now, have an end of this clamour for a King, inasmuch as my friend at Waikato is dead. For this reason, I repeat, it is enough: cease to clamour for a King. Although some. may enquire, whence sprung the disturbances at Taranaki? I will declare that the evil sprung from that King (Movement). Now that my Waikato friend is dead, cease to call for a King. I know full well that the evils have sprung from that King; therefore I say again, put an end to it.

My reason for accepting Governor Hobson was to have a protector for this Island. I thought of other nations—of the French. Now if we consent to the Maori King, our Island will be taken from us. You and I (Mr. McLean are seated at the door of the house; but those who call for a King are in the corner.

Therefore I say again, Put an end to this clamour for a King—put an end to it. That I urge is this. Do not let the name, for protection of the Queen be withdrawn from this country; inasmuch as the land, and the inhabitants also, have become the Queen's. If you persist in crying for a King, we shall be lost. We owe the protection of our lands to the Queen. We owe our protection to the Governor. It has been said that the Governor is wrong.

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No! the Governor is not wrong. If the Governor had not been drawn ashore the Queen's protection solicited then our lands would have become the Pakehas by purchase. Each man would have said. Here is my land. He would have had a knife as payment, and the land would have become the Pakehas. But when the Governor came, the land was placed under the restrictions of the law, and it was enacted that he alone should purchase. I say, once again, put an end to that clamour for a King, because we cannot comprehend that system. My object in accepting the Governor was, that I might have a protector. [Tukihaurr ene interposed: Lest what befal you?] We don't know the mind of other nations. When the fame of New Zealand became known, the French arrived, and the Americans arrived. Look, for instance, at the conduct of the French to wards Pomare (the Queen of Tahiti). The French have taken all her land. Should you persist in clamouring for a King hereafter, you will go wrong. Ahuriri! Ahuriri! There will be evil at Ahuriri bye and bye. Sirs, should that King (Who is spoken of) be appointed we shall be undone. This is the close of the Conference (as far as I am concerned); I am returning home.

Mr. McLean, tell the Governor that I have finished speaking. My speech is ended.

Te Keene, (Ngatiwhatua,) Orakei:—What Te Waka has said, namely, That now Potatau is dead, the King movement should cease, is correet. I will now tell you the uprightness of his (Potatau's) words. Some time ago Waikato proposed to come and destroy the town of Auckland; but Potatau opposed it, and the idea was given up. From this I knew that Potatau's thoughts were favourabte (towards the Pakeha). I agree to the words of te Waka. Let the King movement cease. Should another King stand in his (Potatau's) place, who knows what his designs may be? I have seen the evils of Waikato. One was their design upon Auckland which was prevented by Potatau; the other, (the taking of) Mr. Morgan's cattle. I look at these two things, and I say that Waikato has a desire for evil. Should another King be appointed, his plan may be the slaying of men. Listen to me; This is my word, Should this be true, now let Tamihana's plan be followed out. Also be on your guard with respect to the professions of Waikato. If you (the Pakehas) are the first (to commence hostilities) I shall be grieved; rather let the Waikato be the aggressor. That is all.

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Tamihana Te Rauparaha, (Ngatitoa,) Otaki:—Listen chiefs of this Conference! One thing I know, Waikato's system is a wrong one. Listen you: the Pakehas are not in fault—the fault is with the Maori. I do not blame the Pakeha, but I do indeed blame ourselves. As a proof of this, when my fathers, Te Rauparaha and Te Rangihaeata, received from Governor Fitzroy the payment for Heretaunga—four hundred pounds, that is to say, when Matene and I received it and shared it out—two hundred pounds to Te Rangihaeata, and two hundred pounds to Te Rauparaha; the former expended his money in the purchase of a vessel, and afterwards laid claim to the land which the Pakeha had paid for with that money. After this, arose the war at Heretaunga, and Te Rangihaeata was driven off by the soldiers and the Natives (allies). But when this war was ended, he became a man of peace, and turned his attention to the construction of roads at his place, leaving the saying for his descendents, "This is the road that Te Rangihaeata made."

Te Rauparaha also gave his attention to the building of a church. The house still stands, and is known as "the house which Te Rauparaha built."

Now with reference to William King. He was a peaceful man when he resided at Kaputi. He listened to the advice of Governor Grey. He also apprehended some of Te Rangihaeata's men, and conveyed them to the steamer (H.M.S. "Driver"). After his return to Taranaki he became badly disposed. He was led into it by the (returned) slaves of Waikato; and he continued to grow in evil. It was Te Rangitake who advised the Ngatiawa to return to Taranaki. That was the reason of their returning. Their avowed object in returning to Taranaki was to cultivate Christianity and the worship of God. When they returned they did not remain quiet, but commenced quarreling amongst themselves, and continue to do so to this day. They afterwards turned and fought with the Pakehas. Where we (the Maories) are in fault is this, we cleave to our old customs, namely wickedness and fighting.

Listen you to my views respecting Wiremu Kingi: should Wiremu Kingi first make overtures to the Governor for peace, then perhaps, it will be established.

Listen, all of you! We shall be in trouble on account of this new name invented by Waikato-the Maori King. I disapprove of this King. I have finished on that subject.

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My desire is that the Governor should be a father to us, that we roay grow (as a people). Nevertheless, we shall not prosper, inasmuch as the Maori is indolent. In the beginning, when a thing is first proposed, it is entertained, but after a time they become tired of it, and the subject is abandoned. Yes, friends, the Maories are fond of the novelty but after a time it is given up. When a subject is first introduced it is unanimously entertained, but it needs only two nights' discussion to produce a division, and it is abandoned. In like manner Waikato has set up a King. They fixed on Te Wherowhero as their King because he had the reputation of being well disposed towards the Pakeha. My opinion is, now that that King is dead they will turn to evil and make war with the Pakehas. But, hearken you! Should I hear that any of my Pakehas have fallen I shall come forward and assist them.

I am aware that the desire amongst the Maories to fight with the Pakehas is very great. Their opinion is that the Pakehas are weak. The first collision was at Wairau and the Pakehas fell; afterwards at Wellington; then at Whanganui; and then Hone Heke's war. Hence the Maories suppose that the Pakehas have no strength, that it is only when Maories co-operate with them they prevail, and that without Maories they Would not. We have been united for the last twenty years, and therefore I say now, let us be kind to the Pakeha. We are not men of interior rank—we are Chiefs. Let the thoughts of this Conference cleave to the good things—to those things by which man shall live and prosper. When you return to your homes, do not go with false impressions; rather take a straight course, and one in accordance with right principles.

Now I have to speak of the Pakeha Councils. Listen, all of you. Mr. McLean said to me, and to Matene, and to Rawiri Puaha, that he would like to see the Maories take part in the English Councils. In the times of Governor Grey, he (the Governor) had the sole control over the Revenue, over public works, and over all things. Now the system of Governor Grey bas been abolished; it is left for the Councils to decide (these matters). For this reason we are most anxious that Maori should take part in the Councils. Now that there are disturbances the Maories suppose that this Conference has been called on that account. But I say, no, for this matter was spoken of years ago. Mr. McLean spoke on this subject at Manawatu. Matene, Rawiri, and myself were page 20 present. It has been carried into effect this year. Let us follow this path that we may be preserved.

I have another subject to bring before you. It relates to my doctor at Otaki. Had it not been for this doctor the people would have decreased. The matter that I desire to urge now is that his salary be increased. He is receiving from the Government a salary of Fifty Pounds. The doctor has to travel long distances and his pay is small. I propose that it be increased. Some time ago we (the Natives) subscribed one hundred and fifty pounds for a doctor for our settlement, but though promised it was never paid. I therefore make an application to the Governor to increase the salary of the doctor at Otaki.

I have now to speak of the town of Otaki. (He then exhibited the plan.) This is the plan of our town. The land of the town has been parcelled. Each man has a quarter of an acre allotted to him. I apply now that Crown Grants may be given to us for those allotments, that each man may hold a Grant for his own piece. The allotments, have been fenced in and planted with fruit trees, peaches, apples, &c. There is Hukiki, also Parakaia, Moroati, and others of us (concerned in this town). I therefore say let us receive Crown Grants. Here is, another subject. There is an island called Mana which is now occupied by Pakehas. It has for thirty years been occupied by a pakeha named Pero (?). This pakeha gave us blankets, tobacco. pipes, and powder whenever we asked him for them; he has since said that these things were given to us in payment for the land. That claim was investigated by Mr. Spain and Te Rangihaeata. Mr. Spain decided that that island had been paid for by the Pakeha with blankets and other things; Te Rangihaeata maintained the contrary opinion, and said that these things were given as payment for the use of the land. When Governor Grey was here, a Pakeha named More(?) asked him for a Crown Grant to this land, saying that he had purchased it. We say that it is not right to take that land, but let the Governor give us some money in payment for it, that we may be satisfied, and that our trouble may be put an end to. Let the Governor consent to it, and do you also consent to it, Chiefs of the Conference.

Another subject.—Listen you. The Pakehas has have many cattle running at my place. I am grieved because those cattle are consuming page 21 all the herbage in my settlement. Those Pakehas should pay something for the grass, then we should have funds wherewith to buy medicines for our doctor, and to pay for the repair of our flour mills when they are damaged.

Another subject: again I am urging the Government to provide an hostelry for us at Wellington. You of Auckland, of Nelson, of Whanganui, of Canterbury, and of Otago, are povided with a place of accommodation for the Maories; Wellington only is without. When we, the people of Otaki and other places, visit the town we have no place to go into. A sum of five hundred pounds was set apart for this purpose some time ago, but Dr. Featherston and Mr. Fox negatived it, and we are without a house.

Let me speak to you now on another subject. A long time ago I proposed to give to the Bishop a piece of land for the purposes of a school for the Native children. I desired that the land should be decided on and I called a meeting for that purpose. Te Rauparaha and others assembled in my house. The Bishop also was present. We consented to give for that purpose that piece of land at Porirua containing seven hundred acres or thereabouts. All the Natives consented. This was a token of our appreciation of the pains taken by the ministers to instruct us. That piece was handed over. When my relatives saw that a school was not established they were angry with me for giving the land to the Bishop, and they proposed that we should take it back. When I spoke of this to the Bishop, he replied, That would not be right because you have entirely surrendered it. We gave it in order that we might get a school, and no school bas been established there. The land has been let and the Bishop is receiving the money. Ngatitoa were the first to give land for schools for the children, and from their example the Maori people (generally) learnt to do the like. Now, in my opinion, none of the Ngatitoa (chiefs) have remained at home; they are all present at this Conference; therefore, I say, let us at once agree to cede (to the Commissioners of Native Reserves) all our lands represented in the plan which I hold (in my hand). I mean the reserves which were made for us by the Governor. Let us (Ngatitoa) commence the sub-division of our lands, that we may set an example to the other tribes. Matene and I have been appointed assistant Commissioners for this work, that is for the Native Reserves. But, there is a difficulty about one of the page 22 reserves of which I am speaking; we are quarreling about it: Ropata and I have quarreled over it, and used abusive language towards each other. Therefore, I say, let this land be sub-divided according to the plan of the Pakehas.

Matene Te Whiwhi, (Ngatitoa,) Otaki:—I spoke the other day, but let me speak on another subject to-day. What I have to say to-day is this, My opinion is that the Governor should have some regard for his son William King, and that William King should ask terms of his father the Governor.

Te Makarini, (Ngatiawa,) Te Awa-o-te-Atua: - Friends, My opinion is this. There, are two great subjects before this runanga. First,—the surrender of all things to the Queen. Secondly,—that peace should be, established between the Governor and Te i Rangitake. We are anxioasly waiting for some proposition to come forth (from the Governor). Friends, this is what we want, that we may have something to take back to our tribes. I agree with what Matene has said. I do not object because the land was purchased, but where I find fault is that it was not fully investigated: by a runanga at the first. I have nothing more to say.

Wi Patene, (Ngaiteraagi.) Tauranga:—I agree with Matene that the war with Te Rangitake should be put an end to, and that he and the Governor should be reconciled. I also disapprove of the King (Movement). What do we want with this King? These were my opinions when I came here.

Pehimana, (Ngarauru,) Whanganui:—When the news (of the war reached my place, I went at once to Major Durie (the Resident Magistrate) and said to him, "Durie, Taranaki has fallen!" I then sat down and wrote a letter. What I now say is, that Taranaki is in the wrong. Chiefs of the Conference, I do not find fault with the Governor; but I do find fault in another matter. Mr. McLean give me some money: it is in this that I find fault with you. I disapprove of the conduct of some men selling land secretly. I disapprove of that plan.

Meeting adjourned till the 25th inst.