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Proceedings of of the Kohimarama Conference, Comprising Nos. 13 to 18 of the "Maori Messenger."

Proceedings of the Kohimarama — Conference. — (Continued from our last.) — Monday, 16th July, 1860

Proceedings of the Kohimarama
(Continued from our last.)
Monday, 16th July, 1860.

The Native Secretary (Mr. McLean) opened to-day's proceedings by announcing that a message from His Excellency the Governor had been received. He informed the chiefs that it is customary with the Pakehas, when a message from the Governor is sent down to their Council, for the members thereof to receive it standing. The chiefs of the Conference; together: with the European visitors, forthwith rose up and the following message was read:—

(Message No. 1.)
Thomas Gore Browne, Governor.

The Governor sends some "Rules for the proper administration of Justice" to the Chiefs assembled at Kohimarama for their consideration.

These Rules have been carefully prepared by their friend, Dr. Martin, late Chief Justice of New Zealand.

Government House, July 16th, 1860.

Rules for the proper Administration of Justice.

If the whole tribe agree to the rules here written, they will thenceforward be followed in all proceedings between one Native and another.

I. Officers to Conduct Proceedings.

I. Where a Kai-whakawa has not been already appointed, one shall be recommended by the tribe for the approval of the Governor.
II. The runanga is to be chosen by the tribe, and the. names certified by the Kai-whakawa to the Governor. Let not the runanga consist of very many persons, not page 4 fewer than five, and from that up to six seven, &c., even np to twenty, bnt not beyond that. This will depend on the number of intelligent men in the tribe.
III.Two assistants to the Magistrate shall be recommended by the runanga, and approved by the Governor.
IV.The work of the Magistrate is the work of a chief. Let him not ask or take money from the people. The Governor and the runanga will provide money for his support.

II. Offences And Penalties.

V. The offences to be punished by the Magistrate are the following:—
1. Assault: The penalty not to be less than five shillings, nor more than five pounds.
2. Theft

:One part of the penalty is the value of the stolen goods; the other part is the fine for the offence. The fine for the offence not to be less than five shillings, nor more than ten pounds.

If the stolen goods are restored to the owner, then the fine for the offence is the whole of the penalty.


Any Malicious Act by which the house or clothing, or property, or food of another person is injured.

One part of the penalty is the value of the property injured. If growing crops be injured, the value of snch crops at harvest time is to be considered. The other part is the fine for the offence—not less than twenty shillings, nor more than ten pounds.

In the foregoing cases the penalty may go entirely to the plaintiff or entirely to the Queen, or partly to the plaintiff and partly to the Queen, according as the Magistrate may direct.

The value of the stolen goods, or injured property, should be paid over to the owner thereof.

VI. Other offences to be punished by the Magistrate are these:— page 5
1. Drinking Spirits, or giving spirits to another person to drink. The penalty to be not less than five shillings, nor more than twenty shillings.
2. Eating rotton food, rotton corn or potatoes &c.; causing another person to eat such food; making pits for steeping and preparing such food. The penalty not less than five shillings, or more than twenty shillings. And upon conviction of the offence the Kai-whakawa shall certify to the runanga, and the runanga shall cause such food or the pits for making the same to be destroyed.
3. Adultery: The penalty not less than twenty pounds. In cases where the woman has been regularly married, the penalty not less than thirty pounds.
As to these offences, the penalty goes altogether to the Queen. Formerly the rule was otherwise in case of adultery. The husband recovered compensation in money. But this was seen to be evil. For it is an evil thing that the wife's infidelity should be a means of making money for the husband. Accordingly that rule has been altered.
VII. The amount of money to be paid by the offender in each case, up to five pounds, may be fixed by the Magistrate. But above five pounds let the assistants be called in, to sit with the Magistrate and decide the case jointly with him. Let not a heavy penalty depend on the word of one man, but let three agree.
VIII.The Magistrate and his assistants must keep strictly to the rules here written—these offences and these penalties only. Let them not swerve from them to follow their own liking. Wait till more rules are laid down, and then act upon such new rules.
IX.Heinous offences, homicide, and grievous bodily injuries and the like, have to be disposed of by the Pakeha. But the Magistrate and his assistants will endeavour to apprehend such offenders, and cause them to be conveyed to one of the English settlements for trial.
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III. Civil Proceedings.

X.There are other matters also to be settled by the Magistrate, that is to say:—Proceedings to recover money or property. These proceedings take a great variety of shapes, for example:—
1. A man works for another, and the wages are not paid. A man sells goods to another and the price is not paid, [unclear: &c., &c.,] &c. All proceedings of this sort are founded on some contract between two parties. One of them has not performed his part of the contract, and so the action is brought.

Another source of such proceedings is the wrougful act of some person without any malice, or the negligence of some person without any malice, whereby the crops or properly of another are injured or destroyed.

The cause of action in such cases is not spoken of as a crime or offence. They are civil disputes, in which each party contends that he is in the right.

In dealing with any case of this kind, if it is seen that the plaintiff is in the wrong, there is an end of the matter, but if the defendant be in the wrong, the money or property is to be paid or restored to the plaintiff, and, over and above that, a sum of money not exceeding two shillings in the pound, as damages for the defendant's wrongful witholding of the same.

IV. Enforcing judgment.


If the defendant be very poor, be not severe in exacting the penalty, but wait for the time when he shall get in his crops, or even for the next year.

Let not the man be plundered. If, however, it be seen that he is slack in paying, aud a considerable time has elapsed without payment being made: in that case let the Kai-whakawa cause some of his food to be taken quietly and sold publicly before the whole tribe, that the penalty may be taken in the form of money: and let the excess, if any, be returned to him.

The man's spade, axe, &c, the means whereby he raises his food, shall not be taken. Also his garments and his bedding shall not be taken.

V. Appeal To The Governor.

XII. If the defendant be distressed by the burden of the penalty imposed by the Magistrate or by him and his assistants, and believe it to be excessive, he may appeal to page 7 the Governor. An English Magistrate will be sent through the district, from time to time, by the Governor to hear such appeals, and report to him If the Governor think fit he will reduce the amount. But if he sees that the sentence was right, and the appeal groundless, a sum not exceeding five pounds will be added to the amount of the sentence. The defendant must not withhold payment of the money pending the appeal to the Governor. Where the money to be paid does not exceed ten pounds, no appeal will be allowed.

VI Book Of Records.

XIII. A Book of Record shall be kept, wherein the Kai-whakawa shall cause to be written all the cases brought before him, or before him and his assistants, the decision given in each case and the money paid. This book shall be carefully kept, and shewn to the English Magistrate who is sent by the Governor to visit the district.

VII. The Business of the Runanga.


The penalties which are paid to the Queen are to be deposited with such persons as the runanga shall appoint for safe keeping until the end of the year.

At the end of each year the runanga will assemble to appropriate the money. Part shall be for the Magistrate, part for the assistants, part for the Church Mill, Schoolhouse, &c, or whatever object they shall think best.

But let not the money be actually paid away until the Governor shall have assented to the proposal of the runnnga. For the Governor's assent is the assent of the Queen.

XV. No business shall be done by the runanga unless more than one half of its members are present.page 8
XVI.It is also the business of the runanga to watch all evil practices as they grow up amongst the people, and to devise plans whereby such evil practices may be suppressed, and the people may advance to wards good. Every such plan should be put in Writing, and laid before the Governor. If he approves of it, it shall thenceforward become a rule to be followed in the same manner as those which are here written.

The End.

The audience having resumed their seats, the Native Secretary continued thus:—

These rules have been put forth by the Governor for the guidance of those tribes who have not yet been accustomed to the administration of English law. They have been carefully prepared by your friend Dr. Martin, with a view to assist the native tribes in outlying districts in administering justice amongst themselves. They are not applicable to those districts where English law is regularly administered, as, for instance, the Bay of Islands and Port Nicholson. Some of the chiefs have expressed a wish that there should be but one law. This is much to be desired by all but is not so easily attained. A child does not grow to man's estate in a day. It took the English many generations before they brought their system of law to its present state. While such a difference exists in the usages and customs of the two races in this country. it is necessary that some of you should be gradually initiated into the elementary principles of law before you can appreciate it. With this object, and with a view of superseding some of the objectionable customs to which mamy of your old people still cling, your friend Dr. Martin has taken much pains to prepare these rules. They are simple and easy of comprehension by all. They are not put forth as law, but merely as a set of plain rules to guide your assessors in dealing with cases referred to them where access cannot be had to an English court. Where it is possible to refer to an English magistrate, it will always be proper to do so. The Conference is invited to examine these rules carefully for a few days, and having done so to offer any suggestions it may think proper. Should the chiefs wish to recommend any addition or alteration, they will be able to do so; and any suggestions made will be submitted: to the Governor for his consideration.

The Native Secretary then read Rules 1, 2, 3, and 4, making short explanatory observations on each.

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Ngamoni, (Ngatiwhakaue) Rotorua:—Mr. McLean, give heed to my word. I am thinking about the papers of the past day, and I desire that an expression of opinion (or a throwing of light upon) the papers I handed in to-day may be given, in order that I may be clear on the subject to which they refer. It is not right to reply now to the new words (or message) of the Governor. Rather should you say they are right (the replies to the Governor's opening speech) that my heart may be light: or say that they are wrong, it would be well to know that: or say that the way is made clear, that I may be satisfied.

Native Secretary:—The replies have not yet been received from all the tribes. When they have been sent in, I will read them to you, if you wish it; but it will be proper that the Governor to whom they are addressed should first see them.

Te Keene (Ngatiwhatua) Orakei—The idea which originated this pamphlet (alluding to Dr. Martin's Rules), was mine. I have spoken about it already. I did so at Waikato. The husband of the woman will not be content that the money should be given to the Queen. The fine inflicted is not to be handed to the husband, this is wrong; if it be not so the paramour will be killed (or severely punished). My reason for saying that the adulterer will be killed is this: if the husband of the woman is a chief he will fall back upon the customs of Maori law, and the slave man who has committed adultry with his wife will perish by his hand. Let, therefore, this rule be modified, lest there be nothing to quiet the heart of the husband. This is another point which I do not clearly understand. Two assessors are here spoken of. When I spoke to Mr. McLean on the subject at Waikato, he said, "When we return to the office, this matter shall be considered." Up to the present time I stand alone. Paora stands on his own authority: he is not of your appointment. I am also grieved with the rule which requires that no assessor should demand a fee. I have been performing the duties of my office for one whole year and two half years. It is said that the Governor page 10 and the council will grant money for his support. I entered upon this office in 1858, and so on to 1859, and now we have reached the year 1860 this law is published,—" Let no man receive a fee." I am grieved at this. I will say no more.

Paora, Tuhaere, (Ngatiwhatua, Orakei)—My word is the same. What I look at is a want of clearness in those rules; the obscurity is in the fines for offences. The fines for great and small offences are mingled together in such a manner that it is impossible to distinguish the fine for the greater offence from that for the less. There is a want of clearness in those rules. I think that the rule for small offences and for greater ones should be clearly set forth. When the offence is of magnitude, let the fine be great. Sudden outbursts of passion are a great offence: therefore let the punishment be great. The offence of murder is easily managed—that is taken to the Supreme Court. My disapproval is directed against the rule by which greater and lesser offences are punished by a fine of equal amount. That which I deem a great offence, is the sin connected with women. It is not right that the fine should go to the Queen, and that they should not be divided. There is anger in that: there is evil in that: because the lack of compensation added to the sin of that woman will greatly increase the grief of his (the husband's) heart. Therefore I say let that rule be expunged; let it be rubbed out; let the rule be made clear, lest men do evil. This also I say: let the Maori enter the Pakeha's Councils for the purpose of laying down laws. The Maories are an impertinent people; they will not heed the reproof of their chiefs; when reprimanded their eyes flash with rage upon the chiefs. These are the faults which appear to me; other rules will do for they are good. I except only those two: the great and small offences, and the sin of women.

Makarini, (Ngatiawa, Te Awa-o-te-Atua):—There are the replies which have been prepared to-day. It is my opinion that the laws should be considered at some future time: or perhaps they may be read over by each tribe individually. Let these come first: the laws by and bye.

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Tango Hikuwai, (Ngapuhi, Kerikeri)—Natives and Europeans, this is my word to you. I am going to my own place. I am going, I am returning, my father is dead, my sister is dead, and I have also to accompany my sick friend Wi Hau. Enough, do not enquire for me Mr. McLean. This is my word, all my thoughts are expressed: that word is ended. If my words are approved by the Governor, let them be printed that the tribes may see them. It would not be right to print them immediately: let them appear in the newspaper. With reference to what that man said about the payment of assessors, this is my opinion. Each work brings its own reward. If a man is appointed to the office of an assessor, let him receive his reward. I am an assessor, and have been such for three years. I received £10 for two years. For one year I received £5. I think that if the salary had been £50 it would have been right. Consider the meetings that assemble at my place: all my money is expended for the purchase of flour: and at Wi Hau's place it is the same. Therefore I say let the salary be a proper one. I will say no more on that subject. O people of the South! listen to what I now say to you. If the Governor and his friend quarrel, let us sleep. Let us not be stirred up. If one of us takes part with Te Rangitake, take, this Council will be disgraced. We should rather honour God, the Queen, and the Governor, and all the people: thus shall be said of us that we act according to the law. Those words are ended. So also if a man commit an offence, and kill a European, or if he kill a Maori, let him be punished by the law; if he is withheld from Justice it will be said that he is not a child of the law. I refer to the great offences; the lesser offences can be considered by the assessors. It is true that the laws have been laid down in all places. Do not let my friends enquire after me. I am now going to my own place. Be ye loving towards the Queen, the Governor, and the Europeans. If any man takes upon himself to side with Te Rangitake, then it will not be said of this Council that it is a true one. Rather let us sleep upon the earth: they will settle the point at issue between them: let us continue to sleep on. I have no more to say.

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Let us unite ourselves to the Governor. I will not forget the side of the Europeans. For five years will I consider these things, then will I enter into the English Council. I wish to express my views to this Council. It may be that the Governor will send down a proposal that some of us should assist him in the Taranaki war. I do not know what the Council will say to such a proposal, therefore I wish to leave my word here before I go away, and to say if the Governor should ask me I am ready to go.

Hone Ropiha Tamaha, (Ngatikinoha-ku, Kawhia):—Now then, let me answer your speech, because you are returning home. If you were remaining to the close of our proceedings it would have been well, whereas now that you are going away, let me address you.

Let your words be true because you belong to Ngapuhi. I know the works of Ngapuhi. They may be true, or they may be false. When you go back, admonish your people not to touch evil. You are returning immediately; that is why I say to you, take these things that Ngapuhi may hear about them, because, the old man Te Waka, is absent. We cannot tell now whether it will be good or whether it will be evil, because I know Ngapuhi that they are a disorderly people. Let it not be heard by the tribes after your departure that you have gone wrong. Let your course be a just one, and let it be clear. What you say in this house is as sacred as an oath, therefore consider your words and what you have pledged the Ngapuhi to you have spoken on behalf of them all. This meeting will hold you to your words.

Tango Hikuwai:—It is true I have given an oath. I will reply to your speech. My word refers only to the tribes connected with me, that of Kingi Wiremu Tareha, that of Wiremu Hau, that of Riwhi Hongi; the feelings of the inland tribes I cannot express: my words refer to my own side only.

Te Waka Te Ruki, (Ngatimahanga, Whaingaroa):—I have not yet spoken, though Wiremu Nero, is absent, and Potatau dead. Let me give expression to their words. Let me speak the words of Wiremu. When the Gospel was introduced Wiremu grasped it.

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Waikato was waging war against Taranaki; the Gospel was conveyed thither and Taranaki was saved. Wiremu returned home, Waikato was fighting against Rotorua; they would not entertain proposals of peace; he returned home. Then he went to Te Rauparaha, to Kapiti when he came back, and Potatau had seen him, he also went to Te Rauparaha. The result was that peace was made on the Maori side. Then he directed his attention to the Pakehas. The thought with reference to the first Governor was Wiremu Nero's. They two were married: to the second Governor they were married: to the third Governor they were married: to the fourth Governor they were married. The thoughts of Potatau were closely united to those of the Governor, even until his death. This was his word: "Be loving to the European people, and to the Maori people. No more on that subject: This is another. Some Europeans speak well, others speak evil, some speak proudly; one of them said to Tamihana Tarapipipi, "The Sovereignty of the land has been taken by the Queen; your path is under my thighs." Potatau is dead. Tarapipipi lives, and the parent, Te Heuheu. It is my opinion that this evil is with me, with Waikato. There is no Waikato now to Wiremu Nero, because Waikato has gone to Te Rangitake. I will return to my previous words, that is the impertinence of the Europeans to Tarapipipi. [By the Native Secretary: What is the European's name? The words are heard, the name is not mentioned.] The Pakehas say "the Maori men are as dirt under the feet of the white men." These are the words which grieved the heart of Tamihana.

Hoani Ropiha Tamaha, (Ngatikinohaku, Whaingaroa):—Look here all of you. This is mine, the white one, the other is the Governor's (referring to two books which he held in his hand). Listen all ye people of the runanga—Te Rauparaha, Hohepa, Matene,—because we are one and the same now; we have all become one. Listen all of you. This white book represents me. If you do not understand me, I will explain myself. Commencing at Waikato, and including Te Akau, Whangaroa, Aotea, Kawhia, Marokopa, page 14 Mokau, Urenui, and Waitara, I will make that my boundary I am white (or blameless) as regards my people Westwards, within the Waikato. Look! There is no stain from the earth on me. I am wearing no garment of my tribe. I am white (or blameless) for those are all my people. As this whiteness so let your light be, that it may shine in the sight of the people, for the Governor said "earnestly praying that God may grant His blessing on your deliberations and guide you in the right path; I leave you to the free discussion of the subjects I have indicated, and of any others you may think likely to promote the welfare of your race." Friend Mr. Burrows, (addressing the Revd. Mr. Burrows who was present) you understand the meaning of that word, "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works." I say this because of the Governor's words, "I pray earnestly, &c." I am blameless as regards my people; but I will explain it to our Minister. It is on this account that I remain here. Had I been black (evil) then I should have been driven away. Now, as to the Treaty of Waitangi: it was in Governor Hobson's time. In the days of Governor Fitzroy it was violated, because it was misunderstood. One hand was crooked, the other was straight. The crooked or left hand stirred up evils; I mean wars. Thus came the war at Kororareka. The crooked hand was Hone Heke; the straight hand was Te Waaka. You, the Southern tribes, said that Te Waaka was foolish and that Heke was right, and you said so to the very end. Let me say to you, Te Waaka was right, and Heke was wrong, even to the present time. Thus it is that he is still Te Waaka, that his name still lives; the Governor now regards the whole people with favor. Let me also speak about Paora's matter. Paora knows all about it, because he is a land seller. He knows more about it than I do, for it was he who sold Taurarua. I now know for the first time, that there is a difficulty or dispute respecting Taurarua; I had supposed that Taurarua must belong to the Queen, and if so, Paora has nothing to do with that land; houses have long stood there, the place is covered with Pakeha houses. It is well for me to speak thus, because I am speaking before Paora's page 15 face. Those houses are carved houses; the carvings are in stone. This is all I have to say.

Matene Te Whiwhi, (Ngatiraukawa) Otaki:—Now, Mr. McLean, there is nothing more to be said. The word of the Governor has gone forth, that the Maori chiefs should assemble here, to express their opinion on the message of the Governor, that the wishes of the Native people should be uttered in his presence. They have said that we must dwell for ever under the shadow of the Queen. I have but one thing to say:—this, O Mr. McLean, is what I think, there is no turning back. I cannot speak for the intentions of this tribe or that tribe; but I speak for my own. We are pledged and will take care that the pledge shall be redeemed. No more on that subject.

Let this plan (the assembling of Native chiefs) be made permanent by the Governor and yourself; my reason for urging this is, that it may be to us a means of realizing the advantages of our position as subjects of the Queen, and as a means of cementing our attachment and making firm our loyalty to the Queen, that we may truly dwell under the shadow of the Queen; that we may recognize the Governor as our father, and that we may feel the warmth emanating from the Law as our protector. We hear the Queen's name mentioned, but we desire also to feel her warmth. By this plan only will the union of the two races be confirmed; by this will they grow together. I will not assume the possession of much knowledge at the present time; in future years, perhaps I may attain to some knowledge of the civilized institutions of the Pakeha, but let this plan be continued and made permanent. This is my reason for saying so. If the sun shines upon the vegetation of the earth's surface, the herb springs under its genial warmth, the plants grow and produce fruit; so also in incubation, if warmth of the mother be constantly imparted to the eggs, they are hatched, and the young chickens come forth, but the egg which slips out of the nest (or from under the warm feathers of the mother) dies. It is for our parent to take thought for us.

Takihaumene, (Ngatiwhakaue) Rotorua:—I am not a fool. I am a Queen's man page 16 and on this account you trampled on my words. There is no other word one way or the other way; it is the Queen alone. What Matene has said is good. This world is full of evils. I shall have nothing to do with those things. What have we to do with those evils? I commenced the speeches the other day, saying, "only the Queen, only the Governor (for us)." I now ask for the papers (referring to the replies to His Excellency's address) that they may be read. What are those other matters that are being discussed? Who shall say that evil will not grow? Evil will grow. The Maories will cherish it. The main points are the Queen and the Governor. I am now fully satisfied, because I have heard Te Whareheihei (Taiapo) consent to the Queen. Now my people have fully consented to this "tikanga."

Tomika Te Mutu, (Ngaiterangi,) Tauranga:—Listen, that I may express my disapprobation of the proceedings of this runanga (alluding to the Waikato league). My land has been written (handed over) to the King; it was a piece of impertinence. The name of this land is Tapatai. It commences at Kumikumi, thence to Kahutakiwaru, to Pawhakahorohoro, to Kaikakaroro, to Ohiriro, thence to Te Maunga, and thence out to Arapowhatu. If it had been taken by my ancestor (there might be some ground). The object of the writing was that I should be put down, and that he should be exalted. I shall presently be troublesome about this matter. In my opinion the 'mana' of the land is with myself. Kotorerua was the name of my ancestor.

Horomona Toremi, (Ngatiaukawa,) Otaki:—We have not written a reply to the Governor's address. What explanation have we to seek? seeing that we have entered (on the Queen's side) long since. I have nothing to ask about; because these tribes, Ngatitoa and Ngatiraukawa, have sided with the Government. The Missionaries came first and the Governor came afterwards. I have cast in my lot there. I shall not turn backwards. Why should I seek for any explanation? With you, with the Pakehas, shall be the thought for us; you shall confirm us. There shall be no turning away (from you), because your wisdom came from God, As to us, we are a foolish people, page 17 a people void of understanding. I have one word to say:—The Lord commanded John (the Apostle), saying:—"This is my commandment, that ye love one another." I am reminded that it is through the Law that we love one another. Another thought of mine is, that our language has become yours. It will be for you, for the Pakeha, to interpret it. Here is another matter, Mr. McLean. It is my desire that we should participate in, and be protected by your power (mana). I am not in any doubt about the matter, for it was the first Governor who appointed, and Governor Grey who confirmed Matene, as our Magistrate. All I have to do is to support him.

Te Ahukaramu, (Ngatiraukawa,) Otaki:—The Christianity which I have adopted came in its completeness from England, and landed at Otaki. There are the commandments—ten of them. I am a stranger in this town; but I know that at Otaki there are ten commandments, and at Wellington there are ten commandments. I do not understand these things hat all are speaking about. All I have to say is this:—God comes first, secondly, the Queen, thirdly, the Governor. I cannot see the thoughts of Te Rangitake. I shall continue faithful to these three (viz., God, the Queen, and the Governor). My friend Potatau respected the Queen, and the Government. You say let the Queen's men be separate. If any of the tribes should set up a Maori King, then let them be separated from the Queen's 'mana.'

Te Manihera, (Ngapuhi,) Wangarei:—Pakeha gentlemen resident in New Zealand, Maori chiefs of New Zealand also, listen that I may speak to you about what I have seen in the paper (Dr. Martin's Rules). It is directed that when a payment has to be made by one man for the seduction of another's wife, one part shall go to the Queen, and the other part to the runanga, leaving nothing for the husband of the seduced. Under this law, I (supposing me to be the offender) should be killed by the woman's husband. It would be better to divide the payment, and to let the husband have one part, and the Queen the other; thus I should escape the anger of the injured party. If, however, he receives no part of the payment, then the husband will page 18 be dissatisfied, and evil will result; therefore, I say let it be divided, that the man's anger may he pacified. If he is not pacified, he will be troublesome; let him be quieted with a part of it. His anger would be real, and he would probably commit some act of violence, therefore, I say again, let him be pacified. Enough about that.

European Gentlemen and Maori Chiefs of New Zealand, here is another subject. Although I am a Magistrate (Native Assessor) if I should do wrong let me be punished by the law. If my sin be a great one, then let my punishment be severe, but if trivial, then let my punishment be proportionate. I do not say that I am a good man. There is no knowing what day I may offend; but there is the law to punish me. I speak for my side (or tribe). Let each tribe take its own course.

Native Secretary: What I have to say is this;—you have been requested to take these rules (Dr. Martin's) under consideration. If you should think it desirable that the payment be divided, then state your views on the subject to the Governor. But consider the matter carefully and turn it over in your minds. These matters having been dealt with by the assessors, they are more familiar with them than the people generally, and are better prepared to forman opinion. These are not absolute laws: they are only a commencement. You should take them home with you to your houses, and then let each tribe consider them, and suggest any alterations they may think desirable.

Eruera Kahawai, (Ngatirangiwewehi,) Rotorua:—I wish to propose that the written replies to the Governor's address should now be read. We have accepted the Governor's views, and we have tied them up in our bundle to carry away with us. I mean the words of the Governor made known to us in the midst of this conference. We will look into the meaning of the address in the days that are to come; I assume that the Governor's thoughts are all finished, that there is nothing remaining. It has been said that he shall be our father. His words have been accepted, and they have been packed up to be carried home with us. His words are like one's pipe; the heart never forgets the pipe; even though it page 19 sleeps, it does not forget the pipe. In like manner, we shall never forget the Governor's words. Now, for the first time I see these old men—Tukihaumene, Taiapo, and Ngahuruhuru,—entering this "tikanga," and siding with the laws of the Queen. We, the younger men, have already learnt to distinguish between right and wrong. I have finished on that subject. With respect to the rules relating to the women, we, the young men, think that in the case of married women it is a serious matter, because man and wife are joined according to the holy ordinance of God; as to the case of unmarried women, we do not look upon these cases as serious; cases of this kind can be arranged without much difficulty.

Wi Waka, (Ngatikahungunu,) Wairarapa:—My speech (word) is one of not much importance—a. Maori speech. The subjects relating to the Queen are understood. In former times, in the days of My ancestors, I was in sin,—I was sitting in filth. I was like the progeny of Rangi and Papa: namely, Tane Tuturu, Tane Pepeke, Tane Uetika, Tane Neha, Tane Te Waiora and Tane Nuiarangi. Those beings lay hidden in the womb of their parent without life. Tane Nuiarangi first saw the light of day. He saw it through the armpit of Rangi, and he saw that that would be a place for them to live in. Then Tane Nuiarangi said:—Let us turn and kill our parents. They then cut two poles, known as Tokohurunuku and Tokohururangi. or Rakau-tuke and Rakau-koki. Then Paia with his back thrust up Rangi crying, "Tane i titokona, titokona—Tane i hapainga—hapainga; "Rangi was lifted up on high; and Papa lay beneath. Then the light of day became manifest and man had a dwelling place. I was in the mire, Christianity came and I lived. The Government of the Queen is for the body. The (teachings of the) Missionaries are for the soul. Here is another matter. The Governor is like Tamatea; when Tamatea burnt up the weeds and brambles from the surface of Rangi, man then became possessed of land, and lived. Now let the Governor do the same; let him burn up the evils.

This is another subject. Do not have another Conference here; let the next Conference page 20 be at Wellington. Your kaingas are your own; let me have it (the Conference) next time, that the people at the head of the fish (the South) may be known. (This refers to the old tradition of New Zealand having been fished out of the sea by Maui.) Through its being here the Chiefs from the South are not present, but let it be held at Wellington next time, that the opinion of those at the head of the fish may be elicited. Come to Wellington that we may find out what things require setting right, and that we may ascertain who are the Queen's men. This is the unanimous desire of the Head of the Fish. Let the Queen have her men, and let the King have his. Let the Queen secure her men. If you disapprove, I am speaking in the presence of the Governor. What I say is this, let Port Nicholson be the place for the discussion of these matters, that the hidden things may be brought to light. As to the intentions of the Queen, they are known.

Henare Pukuatua, (Ngatiwhakaue) Rotorua:—This is my speech. We do not consider ourselves competent to make suggestions for the promotion of the cause of allegiance to the Queen; we say that we are an ignorant people. Let us talk this matter over amongst ourselves that we may get light upon it. My heart is now glad because the old men have consented to the Queen's Government. These are the fathers of Rotorua who shall uphold the laws of the Queen. Now, O Governor, make known to us the law about married women; lay down the law for. small offences, and the law for great offences.

Native Secretary:—Think these matters over! Consider them well! Search them thoroughly,—and then give utterance to your thoughts that the Governor may hear them. The Governor has not yet read all that you have said. This week we shall take under consideration some of the subjects that brought us together. The Governor has perhaps some other matter to bring before you. We will now close to-day's proceedings.

Wi Te Tete, (Kapotai), Bay of Islands:—Let me have the last word! Listen ye Pakehas, and ye Maori Chiefs! Listen to my speech! We have now become one people under the Queen. Listen to what I have to say about Wiremu Kingi's war, I ask, How shall we testify our adherence to the Government?

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If we do love the Governor, we shall have met to good purpose. Listen all of you! If the Governor gives the word that I am to go to Taranaki, then I go. If not, then I do not go there. We shall not be deaf to the words of the Governor.

Meeting adjourned to 17th July.