[Mr. Richmond]. Will you tell this House whether you think it would be well to stop suppiies [sic] going to disaffected tribes, and to stop the purchase from such tribes of their produce, and to compel European traders to leave the districts inhabited by such tribes?

Heoti ano te kainga e mohiotia e au, ko Taraoaki. Tona ritenga, me kai ano te Maori tona kai, kia kakahu ano i ona kakahu; kaua e hoatu nga kai, me nga moni, me nga taonga o te Pakeha ki nga iwi whawhai. Mo Taranaki enei whakaaro.kia Ngatiruanui, kia Rangitake me tona iwi katoa.Tetahi hoki, ko Kawhia. Kaua e rere te kaipuke taonga o te Pakeha ki Kawhia. Waiho nga rangatira Maori kia kai ana i ana witi, i ana poaka, i ana riwai, me ona kakahu, me te kahu Maori. Taku e whakapuaki, ko Taranaki, ko Kawhia, ta te mea, he nui rawa to ratou whakakino; to ratou whakakake ki te Kawanatanga, kia takahia i te Kuini, i nga rangatira e piri ana ki te Kawana. Ko taku e pai nei, me aku iwi katoa, ko Aotea, ki reira nga taonga o te Pakeha, no te mea kua karangatia e te Kawana raua ko Makarini, e Wi Nera, koia he kainga mo te Pakeha era kainga. No te mea kua poto mai nga Pakeha o Kawhia ki Aotea. Ko te ritenga mo nga Pakeha e noho ana i roto i nga iwi tutu, kia tonoa atu kia hoki mai ki Akarana ki hea ranei. He mea tika nga Pakeha kia whakahokia mai i nga iwi tutu. Ko te ritenga o Waikato, ekore an e whakaae wawe kia tutakina a Waikato, engari kia puta he kino ki reira. Kia puta he kino, kia whakaturia hoki te Kingi ki reira, katahi au ka whakaae, no te mea, i whakaaro ai ahau ki te ritenga o Waikato o toku iwi. Ko etahi e pakeke [unclear: ana] ki te Kingitanga, ko etahi rangatira e whakekahore ana i te kingitanga. No konei ano i ki au, me mau tonu te hokohoko ki Waiuku. Me piki nga tino rangatira pu o Waikato ki Taranaki, ki te mahi i te Kingitanga ranei, ko reira au whakaae ai kia whakamutua te hohoko ki Waikato.Ko tetahi kupu—Kia whakatika a Waikato ki te patu i nga Pakeha o Taranaki ki reira, ka tika kia purua a Waikato.

The only place I know of is Taranaki. Let it be in this manner. Let the Maories eat their own food and wear their own clothing. Don't give either food, money, or Pakeha goods to those tribes that are fighting. These thoughts are for Taranaki, Ngatiruanui, Te Rangitake, and all his tribe. There is also Kawhia. Let no vessel of the Pakehas with goods, sail to Kawhia. Leave the Maori chiefs to consume their own wheat, eat their own pigs and potatoes, and wear their own Maori garments. I am alluding now to Taranaki and Kawhia, for their evil doing is very great; their arrogance towards he Government and endeavours to trample upon the Queen and the Chiefs who are attached to the Governor. What I and all my tribe are in favour of, is for the Pakeha's goods to be at Aotae, because it was said by the Governor, Mr. McLean, and Wi Nera, that there was to be the place of the Pakehas, as the Pakehas of Kawhia had all gone to Aotea. With regard to the Pakehas residing among disaffected tribes, cause them to return to Auckland or elsewhere. It is right that Pakehas should be drawn from among disaffected tribes. As regards Waikato, I will not speedily consent to the closing of Waikato;—first let evil occur there. When evil arises there, and when the King is set up there, then I will consent, for I take into consideration the conduct of my people, of Waikato.Some are averse to the King movement, while other chiefs are in favor of it. I therefore say, let trade with Waiuku continue. When the principal chiefs of Waikato go to Taranaki, or work at the King movement, then will I consent to a stop being put to the trade with Waikato. Another word, if the Waikato join in killing the Pakehas of Taranaki, then it will be right to close Waikato.

Do you think that stopping trade with tribes hostile to the Government would make them wish for peace, or would it make their more hostile?

Kahore; me he mea ka peratia, ka mutu te whawhai; engari ka kite ia te he i tona kino, ka ripeneta; ko reira hoatu he taonga mona.

No; if that is done the fighting will cease; but when they see the evil result of their bad conduct, and they repent, then let goods be supplied to them.

[Mr. Bell] In the event of the trade of Waikato being shut up now, would the doing so have the effect of making any friendly Natives join the disaffected people?

Me he mea ka purua a Waikato aianei, ka tahi ka mea nga tangata. E! ka mate tatou, me pehea tatou? Ki taku whakaaro, e kore ratou e riri, engari ka noho pouri ratou, ka tangi ratou. Otira he whakaaro kau tenei naku.

If the trade of Waikato is shut up, the people would then say, Alas! we are in distress, what shall we do? In my opinion, they would not be angry; they would sit in grief and mourn. This, however, is only my opinion.

Question repeated.

Ekore au e whakaae. Ka purua a Waikato, ka tutakina Waiuku. Ka noho pea ratou, ka tatari ki te Pakeha.

I will not consent. If Waikato is shut up and Waiuku closed, they would probably stay and wait for the Pakehas (to see what they would do).

[Mr. Richmond]. Suppose that trade were stopped with the hostile Natives in a district, but the Governor let the friendly chiefs get their tobacco and blankets and other supplies, would that work well?

Ko tera kupu, e pai ana ahau ki te kupu; peratia; ko te hunga e noho pai ana, me hokohoko tonu ki a ratou.

As regards that word, I approve of that word; let it be so; let trade continue with those who are well disposed.

[Mr. Forsaith.] Would it be possible to stop trade with any of the disaffected people of Waikato without causing the well-affected to suffer at the same time

Engari ano tena; ki te mea he iwi nui, kotahi rau, e noho pai ana, ka kaha ratou ki te tango taonga, ekore e mate; ko te iwi torutoru, ka [unclear: mate].

That, indeed, if the well-affected tribe is a large tribe, of one hundred men, and were able to take goods, they would not suffer; but if a small tribe, they would suffer.

[Mr. Williamson.] Suppose that trade with offending Natives in any district were prohibited, and the friendly Natives in the same district were permitted to trade with the Europeans as usual, in your opinion would the friendly Natives be likely to furnish supplies to the offenders?

Ko wai ka mohio? E rua nga tikanga o te ngakau: ka hoatu huna pea.

Who can tell? The heart has two plans, probably they would be secretly supplied.

Taku ki mo Waikato, ekore e hiahia Waikato ki te patu. Ma rere a Kawana ki te turaki i te kara o Ngaruawhia, katahi ka kino. Ki te waiho kia tu noa tera poupou pirau ake, ekore e puta mai te kino.

My opinion about Waikato is that Waikato will not desire fighting. If the Governor goes to cut down the colour at Ngaruawhia, then evil will ensue. If the flagstaff is left standing till it rots of itself, no evil will come.

[Mr. Richmond.] Will you tell this House whether you think it would be well to stop supplies going to disaffected tribes, and to stop the purchase from such tribes of their produce, and to compel European traders to leave the districts inhabited by such tribes?

He tika. He kupu tuturu naku tenei, kia tutakina;mana e mahi nei ma te iwi tutu; ko te hokohoko me tutaki. Me i pa tana ringaringa ki te whawhai Pakeha, katahi ka tika te tutaki. E tika ana, no te mea i takahia tera tutu whawhai i te Kawanatanga.

It would be well. This is a fixed word of mine, that it should be stopped; let the disaffected tribes see about it; let trade also be stopped. If their hand took part in fighting against the Pakeha, then it would be right to stop supplies. It is right, because those turbulent fighters trampled upon the Government.

Do you think that stopping trade with tribes hostile to the Government would make them wish for peace, or would it make them more hostile?

Ki ahau, purua nga taonga. Akuanei, ka purua te taonga, kahore he turanga mo te whawhai.

I say stop trade. If trade is stopped, there would be nothing for a war to stand upon.

[Mr. C. H. Brown.] Would the tribe who were forbidden to trade, receive supplies from neighbouring tribes who were not forbidden to trade?

Kei te whakawa te tikanga mo tera. Ki te mea ka aroha au ki aku whanaunga ki roto i te whawhai, ma te whakawa te tikanga.

The Court would have to deal with that. If I show love for my relatives in the war, that would he for the Court to see to.

If tribes permitted to trade, supplied tribes forbidden to trade, do you think that they would charge enormous prices for their goods? or do you think that out of friendly feeling they would be content with a moderate profit on what they themselves had given for those goods?

Ekore tena e taea e ahau—e apopo te utu.

That I cannot answer,-I will answer it to-morrow.

[Mr. Richmond.] Will you tell this House whether you think it would be well to stop supplies going to disaffected tribes, and to stop the purchase from such tribes of their produce, and to compel European traders to leave the districts inhabited by such tribes?

Ae, e whakaae ana ahau kia purua nga taonga, me nga mea katoa. Ki taku, ko te iwi tutu ko Waikato ko Taranaki. E pai ana ahau kia tutakina te hokohoko—e pai ana au ki tera. ko nga Pakeha e noho ana i roto i te iwi tutu, me whakahokia atu.

Yes, I agree to the stopping of supplies and all other things. In my opinion, the disaffected tribes are the Waikato and Taranaki. I approve of trade being stopped—I approve of that. Let Pakehas residing among disaffected tribes be sent back.

Do you think that stopping trade with tribes hostile to the Government would make them wish for peace, or would it make them more hostile?

Mana te whakaaro; nana i tutu mai.

That is for them to consider; it was for their misbehaviour.

[Mr. C. H. Brown] Would the tribe who were forbidden to trade, receive supplies from neighbouring tribes who were not forbidden to trade?

E kore e tae taku iwi; ko tetahi iwi pea e tae i runga i te tahae.

My tribe would not go; some tribes, perhaps, would go in secret.

If tribes permitted to trade, supplied tribes forbidden to trade, do you think that they would charge enormous prices for their goods, or do you think that out of friendly feeling they would be content with a moderate profit on what they themselves had given for those goods?

Ka whakanui te utu; e kore e tukua noatia nga taonga.

The price would be raised; supplies would not be given for nothing.

[Mr. Domett] Do you think most of the principal chiefs of your tribe would use their influence to assist in carrying out the Government plan of stopping trade with the disaffected Natives?

Ka kaha ki te arai atu, ka kaha ahau me aku rangatira.

If it was carried out with vigour, my chiefs and I would be strong (to assist).

[Mr. Richmond.] Will you tell this House whether you think it would be well to stop supplies going to disaffected tribes, and to stop the purchase from such tribes of their produce, and to compel European traders to leave the districts inhabited by such tribes?

Te kupu i whakaaro ai au mo tera, kua puta ki Kohimarama. E pai ana au kia whakamutua te hoatutanga o nga taonga ki a ratou e kino mai, ki nga tangata kahore e piri mai ki ta tatou tikanga nei—hei whakamate i a ratou mehemea ekore ratou e whakarongo ki runga ki te noho pai. Ki ahau, e pai ana tera tikanga, kia tutakina te hoko taonga ki te hunga tutu. E tika ana kia whakahokia mai aua Pakeha, kia matau ratou i a ratou pohehetanga.

My thoughts upon that subject have been expressed at Kohimarama. I approve of the stopping of supplies to those who are disaffected—to those men who will not adhere to our paternal rules —if they will not yield quiet obedience. In my opinion that is a good plan: the stopping supplies to the disaffected. It is right to bring back those Pakehas, that they (the Maories) may perceive their mistake.

[Mr. Forsaith.] Supposing one of your young men were to commit an offence against the Pakeha, would his relatives be willing to give him up to be tried by the Pakeha?

E mea ana ahau, me tutu taua taitamariki, me hamana ia, me tuku mai kia whakawakia ki te ture, Ki te mea ekore e tukua mai, me whai ture mo te tangata e pupuri ai.

My answer is, If those young men offend, let them be summoned; they must be given up to be judged by the law. If they are not given up, the law must deal with those who hold them.

Supposing some of the rebellious people now at Waitara with William King were to go to their relatives in another true, do you think that those relatives would give them up to the Governor?

Ki toku whakaaro kahore pea e tukua mai.

I think that they would probably not give them up.

If not, would the tribe be able to take them?

Heoi ano tona whakakino, te pakanga.

The only evil result would be war.