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Notes of Meetings Between His Excellency the Governor (Lord Ranfurly), The Rt. Hon. R. J. Seddon, Premier and Native Minister, and the Hon. James Carroll, Member of the Executive Council Representing the Native Race, and the Native Chiefs and People at Each Place, Assembled in Respect of the Proposed Native Land Legislation and Native Affairs Generally, During 1898 and 1899.

Necessity for Settling Native Land Question

Necessity for Settling Native Land Question.

As to uninvestigated titles to lands, or papatupu land, you ask that the further investigation be suspended until such time as better laws could be brought into operation and it can be done at a less cost. That request is very reasonable. I am of your opinion: that our Native land laws are at the present time far from perfect; that the expense of investigation is too great. I think that the law requires amendment, and I therefore do not blame you for asking that it be suspended in the meantime. To show you that I believe to some extent in the view you take, I will just mention that we have decided to reduce the number of Native Land Court Judges, and it would not be a bad thing for the Natives if within a very short time the work was finished and the Court closed altogether. (Applause.) Some of the subdivisions which I have seen and the allocations made are simply absurd. For instance, I have seen one about three chains wide and about three miles long. I think the best way would be for some tribunal to decide who were the owners of a certain block of land, and in the case of other blocks, probably not in the same district, but belonging to the same hapus, common-sense would say that if after they decided who were the owners they would submit plans to the tribes and the owners, and say, "This is your land; decide amongst yourselves the boundaries, and if you have settled that, we will finally decide that will be your land." Such a system would give a sufficient area for the owner to live on the land with his family. Under the present system the area in many cases is practically useless. We have gone to a large expense in ascertaining the titles and making the subdivisions. Not withstanding this, the land, so far as settlement is concerned, is as far off being settled as ever, although it has been loaded with all this expense. I wish to impress this upon you: that great pressure is brought to bear to have the Native land question settled, because opening up the country is retarded, and the construction of roads and other means of communication is stopped.

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Something must be done speedily. If, therefore, at this gathering you arrive at conclusions which will help to solve the difficulty I will be quite prepared to give them the fullest consideration. You have the Native land proposals of the Government generally outlined in the Bill submitted last session. Give them your serious consideration; weigh the proposals well, because their object is for the benefit of your race. I beg to assure you that our earnest desire is to pass such laws as will serve the interests of the owners, and at the same time secure the lands being open for settlement. My own view is that we shall never pass a law which will please every tribe and hapu in the colony. But what we want is to give them defined permissive systems which they can adopt. So long as we have the land thrown open for settlement our duty is performed. It is a reflection upon Parliament, it is a reflection upon us all, to know that there are Natives in this colony richly endowed with land who are nevertheless going about the country poverty-stricken and penniless. I am inclined to the opinion that, under any Act we pass, a Commission should be appointed for the different districts composed of both races. The Commissioners so appointed should have absolute power in the adjustment of the present subdivisions. They should have the power of saying who shall go upon the land in the different localities. Further, they should decide who the land belongs to, and be able to say that there shall be no more money wasted in going to law. It is better to settle who is to have the rent than to let the land be eaten up in law-costs. I therefore earnestly impress upon you the necessity of helping the Government to settle this vexed Native-land question. Differences of opinion of a serious and important nature exists as between the old generations and the younger generation of the Native race. I agree with the old Maori chiefs, who were wise in wishing to retain and lease their lands so that they and their children could live on and from them; and I do not sympathize with the younger generation, who want to have the titles ascertained so that they can sell the land, squander the proceeds, and have merry time. If the desires of the younger men were given effect to it would not be long before all the Maori land would slip from them; and I hold that it is not their land to dispose of and squander away. What remains ought to be handed down to those coming after them, just as it was handed to them by their ancestors. (Applause.) Therefore I believe in conserving for all time sufficient land for the maintenance, not only of the present generation of Natives, but of a largely increased number which I hope we shall have in the future. If the land is gone, how are they and their children to live? I will now leave that important question, with the hope that you will help the Government to satisfactorily solve the Native-land question in the interest of both races.