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Notes of Meetings Between His Excellency the Governor (Lord Ranfurly), The Rt. Hon. R. J. Seddon, Premier and Native Minister, and the Hon. James Carroll, Member of the Executive Council Representing the Native Race, and the Native Chiefs and People at Each Place, Assembled in Respect of the Proposed Native Land Legislation and Native Affairs Generally, During 1898 and 1899.

Surplus Lands

Surplus Lands.

I now come to the business submitted to-day. The first is the question of dealing with the surplus lands sold by the Natives without the areas or boundaries being properly defined, and in which, when the boundaries were afterwards ascertained, it was found that there was more land land contained in those boundaries than was anticipated by the Natives who parted with the lands. The chief who referred to what took place on a former occasion at Waima, stated the position very correctly. He also related correctly what occurred when your member, Mr. Hone Heke, informed him that I had agreed that the matter should be dealt with by the Government; that in all probability an inquiry would take place. I will now tell you a little of the inquiry made by the Government. In the first place, we found a very large amount of land claimed to be surplus land had been disposed of by the Government, and that it was now occupied by settlers. We also found very great difficulties in the way, in so far as those who could give evidence as to the boundaries have been gathered to their forefathers. After the lapse of so many years, you will readily understand how difficult it is to reopen a question of so much importance. You have, however, relieved the situation by saying you do not wish any inquiry to be made as regards the lands disposed of by the Crown. As to the other lands which are still in the hands of the Crown, and which have not been dealt with, I do not see the same difficulty in the way of having further inquiry made. What is running through my mind at the present time is that the Government would not admit that there had been any error on its part, or that there was any right on the part of the Natives. There is, however, such a thing as equity; there is such a thing as expediency. When I mentioned the word "expediency" I was thinking of a matter which is painful to me—namely, that there are a large number of landless Natives, not only here but in other parts of the colony. I think it would be an act of grace on the part of the State if it were to give to the tribes and hapus of those who claim to have given those surplus lands—if they were to give the landless Natives of the different tribes and hapus those surplus lands, if it were possible to allocate them. (Applause.) I will therefore submit your representation to my colleagues. We will go into the matter fully, and I will let you know the mind of the Government through your member, probably next session. (Applause.)