Report.

Evidence.

A meeting of the Sub-Committee, in re the proposed "Oamara Stone Quarrying and Export Company, was held at the offices of Messrs Julius and Balmer, Oamaru, on. Friday, 14th September. Present—Messrs Sumpter, Johnston, Procter, and Brown (Convener).

Mr Geo. Munro, Lessee of the Mount Taipo Works, was in attendance, and gave the following evidence:—

1st Question.	—Supply unlimited at Taipo Hill and Totara. Other Quarries of inferior quality. Quantity obtainable—limited only by the nature of the appliances—practically unlimited.
2nd Question.	—Cannot say positively, but am of opinion that satisfactory arrangements could be made with the proprietors of either of the estates mentioned.
3rd Question.	—Exclusive of royalty, can load stone at the Breakwater for, say 9d per foot. This estimate is based upon my old method of working; expect with my new machinery to reduce the price to say 7d per foot.page 7
4th Question.	—Cost of quarrying ordinarily 6d per foot, freight and loading 3d. With my new appliances, say 4d per foot tor quarrying, or 7d per foot loaded at the Breakwater. Have mostly sent stone to Melbourne via Port Chalmers. Freight to Port Chalmers, 10s per ton, and from thence to Melbourne, 18s; total, 28s. The price at present, per steamer from Port Chalmers, is 20s. Have been in communication with M'Meckan, Blackwood and Co., with reference to loading at the Breakwater; with sufficient encouragement they would do so. I am of opinion that sailing vessels would carry stone for 25s from the Breakwater direct to Melbourne.
5th Question.	—Yes, greatly. In loading trucks, a great saving would be effected by substituting steam for hand labour. Steam might also be employed in raising stone from the quarry. By having trucks (the property of those working the quarries) and rails laid down to the quarry itself, much heavy labour and loss of time would be avoided. In loading at the Wharf also, the employment of trollies and portable rails would effect a great saving in loading vessels. In the practical working of the quarries on a larger scale, great improvements might easily be effected in the machinery, and the cost of production correspondingly reduced.
6th Question.	—Exclusive of royalty, I estimate the minimum cost at which stone could be delivered in Melbourne, with the ordinary appliances, at 2s 3d per foot. This price is also exclusive of agency charges and insurance. Cannot yet estimate the extent to which reductions might be effected by the means indicated.
7th Question.	—In my opinion, the capital of any Company to be formed should not be less than £20,000; although half this amount might amply develop the project.

The Committee then adjourned, and appointed Messrs Brown and Procter to continue the inquiry.

I worked ten years as a practical mason in Scotland and England. I am acquainted therefore with all the stones used in Great Britain for building purposes. They are uniformly harder (with the exception of the Bath Stone), than the Oamaru stone, and the expenditure of labor upon them consequently much greater. A French stone much resembling the Bath Stone is used in England, and both those are very much like the Oamaru stone. They are much softer than other varieties, more easily worked; and a great saving of labor is thus effected where ornamentation is desired. I have been in New Zealand for 16 years, during which time I have been chiefly working upon the Oamaru stone. I have used it largely in building as well as sculpture and other ornamental works. Have also quarried it, and exported it extensively to all parts of New Zealand, as well as to Melbourne. Never had a single complaint of the stone. All the principal buildings in Dunedin are built of it, either wholly or in part. With one exception, the page 8 buildings evince no signs of decay. So far from that, the stone hardens by continued exposure, and finally attains a hard, smooth surface. Have monuments standing in the Cemeteries for the last ten years or more, and the most delicate portions of the carving are as perfect as when erected. Am aware that in one case in Dunedin the stone has partially decayed, but this was entirely owing to its having been saturated with salt water. Being a fine limestone saltwater is fatal to it. Have seen stone being shipped from the beach, and at each tide the surf washing over it. Am aware, also, that stone has been shipped to Melbourne in inferior and leaky vessels, and delivered in a state unfit for building purposes. It has been said in Melbourne that this was owing to the presence of salt springs at the quarries. This is a Pure fabrication. There are no salt springs at or near the quarries; nor, indeed, in this part of the country. The spring water is uniformly pure, and would not damage the stone in the least. The amaru stone can be worked when taken from the quarries with any tool which can He used upon timber, and with greater facility. It can be sawn or planed, or turned even with the greatest ease in an ordinary lathe. The saving of labor in all ornamental works is very great, and in my opinion, after so many years experience, there is no more durable or economical stone in the world for any class of work.

Mr Thomas Forrester, Architect, examined, said:—

1st Question.—Taipo, Totara, and Atkinson's. The quality in the first two, practically inexhaustible. That at Atkinson's, although less known, I consider the best.

3rd Question.—The cost of obtaining stone in quantity from these quarries has hitherto prevented its coming into general use, and an inferior quality from the Cave Valley at a much lower price has been almost exclusively used in Oamaru.

5th Question.—By improving the appliances at the quarries, great reductions might doubtless be made. In carrying on operations on a large scale, improved methods would suggest themselves, and in my opinion the cost could be greatly reduced. The appliances at the Wharf are ample at present, and equal to a large extension of the trade. They include steam cranes, iron trucks (specially adapted for the holds of vessels), and portable rails, if required. These appliances have not yet been employed in exporting stone. In the matter of charges, the Harbour Board already offer every inducement, inasmuch as 1d per foot, the present tariff, will barely pay the expenses of cranage and other appliances available. In my opinion any Company having their own trucks specially adapted for their own use, would economies considerably in carrying on their operations, both at the quarry and in loading at the Wharf.

7th Question.—In my opinion to do the trade justice, the Capital of a Company should not be less than £25,000. The stock in Melbourne should be so ample as to be sufficient for, say, one or two large buildings, the intermittent nature of the supply hitherto having been a great means of preventing the development of the trade with Melbourne.

Capt. Alex. M'Lareh:—

4th Question.—I am master of the barque Woodbine, and for many years familiar with the anticolonial trade. Have never carried stone to Melbourne, but think 25s. per ton would pay at present in comparison with other freights. Stone generally goes 16 cubit feet to the ton. Oamaru stone is much lighter than any other. Were it once well-known among shipmasters that they could depend upon a cargo of stone as back freight there would be no scarcity of vessels to carry it to Melbourne. A steady trade in stone would cause competition, and attract many vessels to the port. Many vessels would be glad to carry stone at a merely nominal rate, instead of ballast (for which we pay 4s. per ton) to Newcastle, if they could depend upon prompt loading and discharging. The stone could be thus shipped via Newcastle at a cheaper rate than by the direct route. From Newcastle the freight to Melbourne is from 12s. to 14s for coal. Stone would be about 2s. more. The Company would require an agent at Newcastle, and perhaps a depot. A considerable trade in stone is carried on between Sydney and Newcastle. Newcastle imports the whole of its building materials. The Oamaru stone might meet with a considerable demand in Newcastle. Going as bailase it could be placed cheaply in the Newcastle market. To insure safety from salt-water, the stone should be dunnaged like any other cargo. I have no doubt that were a large trade once developed, freight, owing to the greater competition which would arise would be considerably reduced. It might probably be reduced to 20s. per ton, or even less, with proper appliances at both ends and ample cargo.

Mr. Smith, Traffic Manager, Railway Department:—

4th Question.—The railway rate for stone is 10d. per truck per mile. It is eight miles from Mount Taipo, and the charge therefore 6s. 8d. per truck. A truck carries five tons. The rate is Is. 4d per ton of 22feet. From Atkinson's the charge would be 6s. per truck. To these charges those from Oamaru to the port are to be added. They are, Is. 3d. for the railway, and 1s. 10d. wharfage.

4th Question.—No doubt the charges could be largely reduced by the larger operations of a Company. If the Company had their own trucks, the Government no doubt would be glad to meet them fairly. Would strongly recommend any Company formed to have page 10 their own trucks. £1 per day demurrage is charged for every truck detained over four hours. During the grain season any company would be much inconvenienced for the want of them. A considerable trade might be done in stone with Christchurch. The railway rate is 112s. 10d. per truck, or about 1s. per foot. To Dunedin, at the present tariff, the rate would be 61s. 1d., or from Mount Taipo, 56s. 1d.; or say, 6d. per foot. Expect the through line to Dunedin will be open in eight montha The railway charges I consider sufficiently moderate. Had the Company their own trucks, they might be entitled to a reduction of 25 per cent. At the proper time they should communicate with the Government through Mr. Conyers.

Mr. David Ballantyne, Quarryman:—

1st Question.	—I am part owner of one of the Weston quarries. Consider the quantity available unlimited. For export purposes only the best quality should be employed. Have just opened a new quarry at Cave Valley, near the railway siding, which appears inexhaustible, and is better than any other stone I have yet handled in the Colony. I have had five years working in the quarries of the neighborhood. In Scotland worked 40 years in freestone quarries. The Scotch stone is about twice as heavy as the Oamaru stone. I think the lightness of the Oamaru stone as compared with all others is no detriment. Consider the Oamaru stone better than some of the home stone, and equal to the very best in the old country. It is more durable than the home stone, and not nearly so liable to become discoloured. Owing to the greater softness of the Oamaru stone it is more easily worked, and compared with the heavier stones of the old country, a saving of 50 per cent, would be effected in the cost of working. Oamaru stone improves and rapidly hardens by exposure. On the other hand, the best home stones besides becoming discoloured, are very liable to decay. With a proper foundation the Oamaru stone will be as dry as any other.
2nd Question.	—Would myself be willing, with the sanction of my landlord, to transfer my interest to a company. Have a lease for five years over a paddock. I am paying ½d. per foot for the first 6 months, and afterwards must pay ¾d. per foot royalty. A company, by purchase or otherwise, might always rely upon an unlimited supply of stone.
3rd Question.	—Would deliver the best stone at the truck at the railway siding at 8d. per foot.
4th Question.	—With my present appliances it costs 4d. per foot quarrying.
5th Question.	—with better appliances of course would be able to raise stone at a much cheaper rate. Consider Munro's invention a great improvement. In other respects the methods employed at home are much the same as those here. At home it is page 11 usual to cut the stone to the dimensions required for the building. Here it is cut in large blocks, and afterwards reduced as required at the building itself. This saves expense. I am of opinion that great improvements could be effected by a company with ample means at its disposal. Have no knowledge of the steam saws for cutting and quarrying employed in Victoria.

Mr D. A. M'Leod, Civil Engineer, Oamaru Water Works:—

1st Question.—The whole area, from Kakanui River to Boundary Creek, a distance of 14 miles, abounds with stone. The quantity available is practically unlimited. The best in my own experience was got from Taipo. I believe stone of equally good quality can be had at Cave Valley, at Totara, Papakaio, and other localities. The supply of stone equal to that at Taipo is inexhaustible.

2nd Question.—8d per foot, delivered in Oamaru, from Cave Valley, and somewhat more from quarries more distant.

3rd Question.—No doubt facilities for transport and improved machinery, with other appliances for carrying on the works on a large scale, would effect a great saving of labor, and, consequently, cheapen the cost of production. The industry is only yet in its infancy, and is capable of indefinite development.

6th Question.—A Melbourne contractor gave me the following figures as the result of his operations:—Royalty, 3d; quarrying, 4d; cartage, 1s 4d, say 2s, per foot, at Moeraki, from Totara, a distance of 20 miles. Delivered in Melbourne, the cost would be from 4s to 4s 6d per foot

Mr M'Leod further stated that he had used the stone for bridges and culverts on railway and other works, above water and under water, and subject to very severe strains, and he regarded it as the most valuable stone with which he was acquainted for such purposes, both on account of its durability, its great strength, and the facility with which it can be worked into any shape. Besides, it is cheaper than any other stone. He added:—So far as my investigations extend—and they have been very ample—I have never observed, after many years trial, the least signs of decay or distress. Not only so, but it improves by exposure. Water does not affect it in the least. If proper precautions are taken in erecting buildings it can be made as impervious and dry as any other stone. Of course I refer to the better qualities of stone. I am aware that inferior samples and bad workmanship have given some cause for complaint on that score. The numerous fine buildings in Oamaru sufficiently testify to the great beauty and extreme durability of the stone, which after so many years evinces no signs whatever of decay. It is very notable that you rarely, if ever, discover a cracked lentil in the Oamaru stone, a circumstance common enough with reference to all sandstones of which I page 12 have any knowledge. In my opinion, besides the cheapness with which the stone itself can be produced, it can be so easily worked into the most elaborate designs that a saving of something like 50 per cent, can be effected, as compared with other stones. This in highly ornamental buildings, and for other purposes such as monumental works, I regard as of great consequence, andta great recommendation to the stone itself.

Mr John Habdy, Surveyor:—

1st Question.— The available supply is practically unlimited, At Awamoa there is a quarry of the very best stone literally inexhaustible; at Totara, also, and Lambourne, as well as in other districts. At Teaneraki and Lambton, perhaps, the largest supply in the district is obtainable. These districts are traversed by two lines of railway.

2nd Question.—The Quarry Reserves, the property of the Corporation of Oamaru, of any importance, consist of about 2 acres at Awamoa and 4 acres at Totara. Those still the property of the Crown, are 2 acres at the Fortification, about 20 acres at Capsize, and part of the quarries now being worked at Weston. These could be leased on easy terms from either the Government or the Corporation. Of the quarries now practically developed the Taipo, on the Teschemaker estate, those on the Tree Terrace and Fortification, on the Totara estate (the property of the New Zealand Land Co.), and one at Weston, on Mr lsdale's property, now being worked by Messrs Ballantyne and Munro, are the best. On the properties, also, of Mr Atkinson, Mr Meek, and the Hon. R. Campbell, and others, there are extensive stone deposits, some at least of the best quality, and in any quantity. Some, if not all, of these quarries could be obtained at a moderate rate, by purchase or otherwise.

3rd Question.—Have had much experience in quarrying operations. Am of opinion that with improved appliances, i.e., by the application of steam for shearing and craning, by rails laid to the quarries, and trucks the property of the Company, and other appliances which experience on a large scale would be sure to suggest, the cost of production would be greatly economised. It is impossible at this stage to say to what extent such improved methods would reduce the cost at which the stone could be produced, but doubtless it would be very great.

4th Question.—Had recently some prospect of exporting largely, in conjunction with Mr Peyman, the Contractor for the Breakwater works, and that gentlemen and myself, after considerable enquiry, concluded that were a large trade once established, the freight to Melbourne would not exceed 20s per ton, and might eventually be reduced, wore the best appliances available at both ends, to 15s per ton. We proposed to purchase stone in the open page 13 market, and pay 1s per foot for the best qualities, delivered on the wharf, at which price we anticipated an abundant supply.

5th Question:—Yes, undoubtedly great reductions might safely be anticipated from the introduction of better appliances.

6th Question.—Some three years ago I contracted for the delivery in Melbourne of 400,000 feet at 4s per foot. The impossibility of loading stone at the time at Oamaru obliged me to abandon the project. The difficulties which then interposed are now wholly obviated, and in my opinion a large and profitable trade awaits the formation of a compaoy.

7th Question.—In my opinion a company with a capital of £20,000 would be amply sufficient for all purposes.

Mr Hardy further stated that the stone exported from Moeraki, owing to the difficulty in the way of transport and loading, must have cost, delivered in Melbourne, from 4s. to 5s. per foot.

Mr Hector Munro, Mason and Contractor:—

1st Question.—Am interested in a quarry at Weston. Stone can be procured in any quantity of the best quality. Totara, Teaneraki, and Weston would alone suffice for the present generation.

2nd Question.—Am of opinion that any of the numerous quarries in the district could be purchased or otherwise obtained at a reasonable price.

3rd Question.—Stone can be procured at the quarries at 6d. per foot, suitable for export. Of course the best quality.

5th Question.—Am decidedly of opinion that a company with ample appliances would economise labor and cheapen the production.

7th Question.—Should think a company with £20,000 capital sufficient for all purposes.

James Johnston, Architect:—

1st Question.—Supply uulimited. Those quarries already opened at Weston, Taipo, Totara, and Duntroon. The three latter are the best, and alone suitable for exportation. At Atkinson's, the Fortification, and numerous other localities there is an abundance of stone. Indeed, the entire country from Kakanui River to the Waitaki Plains, an area of 100 square miles, is one vast stone formation. Stone enough to rebuild London were it burned down.

3rd Question.—The better qualities of stone can be procured in Oamaru at 9d. I refer to stone suitable for exportation.

5th Question.—Yes, decidedly. By the introduction of steam power asan auxiliary to mechanical improvements. In carrying on quarrying on a large scale the cost of production would be greatly reduced in every way.

7th Question.— Would think from £20,000 to £30,000 a sufficient capital.

Mr Johnston further stated that he had been engaged in Oamaru for the last 4 years as an architect; that he bad prepared plans for and carried out some of the largest buildings in Oamaru. Considered the Oamaru stone to be most durable, it is very strong, and will bear a large pressure, is easily worked, and affords the unmost facilities for elaborate ornamentation. In London and in America had considerable experience in working other stone. Compared with other stone with which he was acquainted, the cost of working was very much reduced. As near as he could estimate the cost of working Oamaru stone, especially for fine work, is about one-third that of other stones usually employed.

William Doak, Quarryman:—

Have been engaged in quarrying operations for 10 years in Scotland and 15 years in this district. The Scotch stone generally is both harder and heavier than the Oamaru stone. The Ayrshire quarries produce a stone nearly as soft as that worked in this district. It is considered a good stone. The softer the stone the more durable for some purposes. When exposed to great heat the softer the better. The Oamaru stone I consider equal in quality for building purposes to the best Scotch stone Although lighter and softer it will stand as great pressure, is in fact more durable than the Scotch. It will bear as much pressure and weight as any stone twice as hard that I am acquainted with. Unlike most Scotch sandstone, which soon gives signs of decay, and becomes rapidly discolored, the Oamaru stone improves rapidly by exposure. It becomes harder, and acquires a hard face, which is perfectly impervious to wet. I can point to some samples exposed for years with a face as smooth and hard as glass. The supply of stone in the district is enormous—absolutely inexhaustible. In my opinion, if a large trade were developed, many improved methods might be adopted, and the price consequently reduced. I have observed Mr. Munro's patent, which is a great improvement. One man can do as much work with his machine as four with the old appliances. With further experience and greater steam power it could easily be improved upon. Steam cranes, an ample supply of trucks, and other improved appliances, would greatly cheapen the production. With wages more than double the rate obtaining in Scotland, buildings can be erected at less than half the price. The saving of labor is very great when elaborate designs have to be executed.

Mr Thomas Glass, Architect:—

Question 1.—The available sources of supply are inexhaustible. The whole district from Kakanui to the Waitaki is stone bearing in abundance.

Question 2.—A company would be able to command the stone of the district, and with proper appliances would absorb the entire stone trade. Proprietors of quarries would require to arrange with such a company, and their quarries would rem tin unproductive to them. Private parties would be unable to compete with a large company.

Question 3.—Stone is delivered in Oamaru at about 8d per foot. That is stone of inferior quality, which is almost exclusively used for building purposes in Oamaru.

Question 4.—Cost of quarrying 4d per foot at Weston, and 6d at Mount Taipo and other quarries in that vicinity. Freight to Oamaru about 1d per foot, and to Melbourne about 25s. per ton.

Question 5.—Most certainly. The present appliances are capable of indefinite improvement. Mr Glass further stated that he had been employed professionally in Oamaru District for the last 17 years; that during the whole period he had been using the stone; and that it is a most valuable stone for building purposes. Its softness renders its manipulation easy, and consequently economical—while it is a most durable stone, and improves the longer it is exposed to the weather. One specialty is its great adaptability for ovens and for other purposes—situations where it would be exposed to great heat. Was well acquainted with the freestone of the old country. The better qualities of Oamaru stone are superior to most of the Home stones for building purposes. The home stones are much harder, though they lack the tenacity of the Oamaru stone, and are much more expensive to work; besides being more liable to decay and discoloration. One third of the labor will produce as great results, where ornamentation is desired, with the Oamaru stone. Any carpenters' tools which can be used upon wood can be employed with as much facility upon the stone as upon the softest timber. It can be planed, sawn, or chiselled, or turned in any ordinary lathe. I consider it specially adapted for works of art, such as sculptures, monuments, and other carved work. When operated upon in its soft state, it is worked with great facility, and afterwards hardens by exposure to the weather. It becomes glazed, and quite impervious to wet, without any external application. Raw oil, in my opinion, and perhaps a little white lead is the only external application I would recommend. With proper precautions at the foundations, the buildings will be as dry as any in the world.