Increase for the present year fully 17 per cent on any former year.

I analyzed them for some years past, and there has been a gradual increase. I might say, in addition to that, what would detract to some measure from these averages, that of late years many of the larger fanners in the Bulla rook district, since the railway has run out to Wallace and other places, and at Cogell's Creek and Clones, many farmers have put up mills of their own for chaff-cutting, and now instead of sending their produce here, they utilize those chaff-cutters, and send the whole of the hay and straw direct to Melbourne and Sydney merchants. Of course that has detracted in some measure from of returns, and yet our own market shows an increase of seventeen per cent. over any other year. There has been a gradual increase right through. I am an old member of the Agricultural Society, and have been in the habit of supplying their wants, and as I have been producing to some small extent myself, I suppose they thought I could give you some fair ideas.

1884. Has any special plant been introduced here other than the ordinary wheat, oats, barley, potatoes, and so on?—There has been nothing—speaking as a seedsman—further than we have had froto New Zealand from time to time, We have had one or two varieties of oats. Do you mean outside the ordinary cereals?

1885. Yes?—No; from our altitude it does not answer. Some of the farmers have tried—especially in connexion with dairy-farming-tried lucerne. That has been a failure in this district. It will grow, but this district is not a home for the plant; and they tried millet, sorghum, and maize. We sell on the average perhaps five or six tons of maize to the dairymen and farmers; still the quantity used in this district is very Small, and it does not increase.

1886. Has sugar beet been tried here?—It has, but not extensively.

1887. Does it grow well?—I have had favorable reports. Two or three farmers still grow a little every year, but it is not extensively grown.

1888. Has it been analyzed to ascertain the percentage of saccharine matter?—Not that I am aware of.

1890. Do they never distil from beetroot?—I believe never at all.

1891. You spoke of planting forest trees, and you said that in a short time they would be profitable to a man for the timber?—I mean for the timber.

1892. How many years would it take for the trees you speak of to be profitable?—If the forest reserves of which 1 speak were managed upon the same principle as the noblemen's estates upon which I worked when I was a young man at home, if they were to keep a small nursery of their own, and annually raise some thousands of trees, and have a proper system of planting, they could begin to thin them in eight or ten years profitably.

1893. What would the trees be useful for then?—For mining and all kinds of machinery. Many kinds of European woods grow rapidly, and are a perfect timber.

1894. Will you mention a few of them?—I think ash and elm grow well there.

1895. Is the pinus insignia a valuable timber?—As a pine I do not think it will be the most valuable. The deal from it, I think, will not ever come into competition with the Norway spruce; but of the Norway spruce I have had some remarkably fine specimens, and I think, if the Commission could devote a day to travel through those reserves to see the timber they did plant there some years ago, they would come to the conclusion that the Water Commission, instead of leasing those lands, would do far more for the country if they systematically used them for forest purposes. It is the natural drainage of a large area of country, and it stretches through about ten miles of the very heart of the agricultural district; and, from its altitude, I believe if a large belt of timber were conserved there it would pay all its expenses, after the first few years, from the timber taken off it, and it would form a natural shelter for the whole district.

1896. Has any red gum been planted upon it?—No.

1897. Would it grow, do you think?—I think it would.

1898. Does altitude affect the growth of redgum?—The finest foreste of redgum were at Echuca.

1899. Have you any redgum growing near Ballarat?—There may be a few, but very few. There are none indigenous that I am aware.

1900. Do they grow well?—The whitegum is the gum that is indigenous to the district.

1901. Have you seen the redgum growing well and vigorously here?—I have not. I do not think there is a single specimen.

1902. Does hickory grow?—I think hickory would. I think most of the deciduous trees of the Northern hemisphere, from its altitude and the richness of the soil, would do remarkably well.

1903. Larch, and cedar?—We are rather too warm for the larch, and for the Scotch fir: but I have seen some fine larches.

1905. What distance do you recommend for planting them?—That depends upon the nature of the tree; I should commence at six or seven feet apart.

1906. Would you plant one variety of tree or mix them?—I should have rows of each kind, not mix them. Then, again, some of that land is very wet and swampy, and that is just the very country for redgum.

1907. Has the black or silver wattle been tried here?—Either of them would do admirably, and they would do admirably in the Story Rises and out in the Creswick district.

1908. Has the American red deal been tried here?—Only sparsely.

1909. Would it succeed well?—It would I should think.

1910. Would it be valuable timber?—Very.

1911. Is there any plant to which you think a farmer could profitably direct his attention to in this district, other than those usually grown?—Do you mean as hedge-row timber or as plantations?

1912. I do not at this moment refer to trees, say, fruit?—I believe this district, taking it as a whole, taking the volcanic soils, farmers ib planting for profit should plant all the early fruits, and on the black soils where they have strong clay subsoil, like the Beaufort side, on those ranges it would do better for English fruits, such as apple and pear; but those do not do so well upon the volcanic soils as the small fruits. In the Bullarook district all the small English fruits can be grown to any extent, and there is always a market for them at a very high price.

1913. Are there not some other vegetable products that you, in your knowledge as a scientific gardener, would recommend to be introduced into this and other parts of the colony?—There are many I would like to see introduced, but at the present time the farmers, till the last few years, have not had their attention turned to anything but the raising of the usual crops.

1914. But the object of this Commission is, if we can, to turn their attention in that direction by getting the information from experienced gentlemen like yourself?—Upon this dividing range, and with the attude that we have, almost any produce that would do in the south of England, and in the whole of the southern counties of England, ought to do here admirably.

1915. Can you mention some specially?—I should think, myself, as an improvement in farming, if they were to grow trifolium. Now, of course, they are trying mixed husbandry; but till they have either stall-fed cattle, or grow more for their stock, root farming would hardly be useful.

1916. Have any farmers tried tobacco?—No, one or two have tried it in the forest, but it bas never been a success that I am aware of.

1918. Has chicory been grown successfully?—It has been grown; know a farmer out at Learmonth that did it, but he never proceeded with it; the demand for chicory is very limited.

1919. Does it grow very well?—Very well in this district.

1920. What number of tons to the acre, do you know?—I never saw it tried by the acre, but it grows well and gives a good return.

1921. You spoke of other products, but you had not quite finished? -I was speaking of trifolium.

1922. Would it be more convenient to you to send out a special report from that point of view, so that you can have time to think it over?—And any new plants?

1923. Tes, not only for this part of the colony, but for other parts?—I shall have great pleasure in writing to you; I will go carefully into it.

1924. Will you permit me to suggest a few headings—for instance, our Commission is to inquire what vegetable products, other than wheat and grain, the climate and soil of this district are suited for; for in_stance, in this district Mr. Wilson told us that, with a little irrigation, he could increase his profita, and make his industry much more profitable than it is now. Then, again, on the question of drainage, you say you have had some drainage done in this district; it would be very import—ant, indeed, to give us some information as to that. Then, as to fruits, we should like a very full report, not only of those that are now grown here successfully, but those that might be. Then, again, we should like to have your views, specially, with reference to timber; I see that you have given that matter special attention, and we should like very much to have your views, at length, as to the sorts of timber that might, with advantage, be introduced here, how they should be introduced, and generally your remarks upon the subject. Then as to labour—of course that is a delicate question to touch—but the last witness pointed out to us the difficulty be had to meet the point; you may have, perhaps, some suggestions to make upon that subject. Then, finally, the question of machinery; of course, that gentleman made a very important statement to us just now, that in his particular line, owing to his having introduced machinery, a saving of 50 per cent, was made; no more important statement could be made than that in reference to any industry; you may be able, upon that point, to give us also some very valuable information?—Thank you, I will consider it.

1925, You might also add to that any information you may gain from your experience as to whether any of the scent plants would flourish in this district?—Yes, I will go carefully into it, and give you every information in my power.

1926. You speak of the tea tree answering well?—Yes.

1927. What kind of soil does it grown in?—The chocolate soil. I was speaking to one or two very intelligent Chinamen about it, and they had been to the Beech worth district looking for an area for the purpose page 108

Georpe Smith, continued, 18th June 1886.

of going into the tea culture, and they had seen the tea specimens in the forest, and they said they were as fine plants as they would wish to see for commercial purpose; there are five or six varieties there, chiefly the green varieties.

1928. Is not the greatest difficulty in tea culture in this colony the question of labour; it is so costly in this colony that it would make the industry unprofitable, if you had to employ labour at its present rates?—I have no doubt you may manage, but that the tea plant may be grown here well; but as the cost of labour comes on, it may not be profitable without labour.

1929. Have you seen the plant growing at Macedón, in the Nursery there?—Yes.

1930. What height does it attain here?—Those plants are about 4 feet.

1931. How many years were they planted?—About seven or eight years.

1932. Were they raised from seed?—They were raised from seed by Dr. Mueller, and he sent up a few; I had a few and sold them, and they did equally well.

1933. How does that correspond with the height they would attain in the same time in China or India?—I told the Chinamen about it, and they went out to look at them, and from what they said they were just as good as they would be at home, and there is every sign, from the wood they make, and the leaf, and everything—

1934. Has the leaf been gathered at all?—I think not.

1935. Would not it be a nice experiment to gather a few leaves and try what the article would be like, and its results?—Yes, I should think so. Mr. Lang, who was formerly in this city for many years, was one of the most enterprising men we ever had in introducing new plants for experimental purposes; I think if there is any man in the colony we are indebted to for introducing new plants, it is he.

1936. Could he give us good evidence?—I think his experience would be very valuable to you; I have always looked to Mr. Lang as one of the most energetic and enterprising men we ever had in introducing new plants.

1937. You led us to believe that the pinus insignis was not a profitable tree, but you do not mean to say it does not grow fost?—All my doubts are as to its timber, commercially speaking, but in every other respect it would pay fairly well to grow; it is a fine shelter. Mr.ware of Yalla-y-Poora, about fourteen miles from Buangor, planted narrow belts, about two chains wide, of trees; he did this very extensively, and he told me that the sheep upon those plains gave fifty per cent, more yield since they were sheltered by the trees. They are largely composed of pinus insignis.

1938. Were they planted in from pot plants?—He used to buy them from me in seed boxes by the thousand, and keep them a year, and put them out a chain wide.

1939. By saying that the timber will not be good, you mean that it will not be first-class timber?—I think it will not be first-class timber.

1941. Is that a good plan?—It has answered very well upon some estates I have seen; the only fault is that they are liable to sow too thick; if they plant six or eight ounces to the acre for forest purposes, it is far better than sowing more. Those acacias upon the Colac line Were sowed by some one who had no idea of what he was doing; they have sowed about ten times too much seed.

1942. It is stated by a gentleman who is responsible, I believe, very largely for the thick sowing, that the object he had in view was to prevent fire; that had they been sown more thinly the grass would have grown up between them, and the trees would have been destroyed by fire, and he says that certain of those trees will take the lead, and (if the others are cut out) they will make good timber. What is your opinion?—My opinion is that they will die out, being too thick; you see them dying out even now, after being thinned; you do not get the rapidity of growth, commercially speaking—you do not get the return in bark; and all indigenous trees, if too thickly planted, die out in a few years.

1943. The gentleman responsible for that is Mr. Rees, and he is a practical man, and his opinion was and is worth careful consideration; if the trees were thinned out to 3 feet or 3 feet 6 inches apart, nearly the whole of them, do you think that at that distance apart the bark would be likely to be valuable?—They are too thick then.

1944. Even if thinned out from time to time?—Yes.

1945. And they would be much better thinner?—And they would be much better thinner, you would get a far better return in bark, and a far more rapid growth in the tree.

1946. Your opinion is that the industry is even now being neglected?—Entirely.

1947. And that there is an enormous source of wealth there for the colony if properly gone into?—Yes, and there will be a great necessity for it by-and-by; there have been great climatic changes since I came to Ballarat. When we had a great forest belt of country we could grow many things thirty years ago that we cannot grow now; for instance, the peach nsed to ripen here, and many tender trees, but now it is colder. We are upon the Dividing Range, and we have extremes of heat and cold.