Te Mira.

The first speaker was Rev. Tamihana, who said,—Welcome, Mr. Carroll, who bring with you the Government! Let the Government see its people, that they are true. Come, O Government, and see the Native people you have to rule! Come and see their condition yourself. [Song of welcome.] Come and bring light to the Native race. [Song.] We have waited for you many years. Throughout all our suffering we have waited anxiously for you to appear. Now that you have come, we trust you will do something which will improve us and lighten our burdens. There are only a few here. Most of the people are on their way to a meeting which is about to take place shortly at Gisborne. They are waiting there for you. We are only the remnant left behind. Your Native children have been sorrowing for a long time. Woe has been with them. Now that you have come, treat us as you would those who are entitled to receive consideration.

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Ihakara said,—Welcome to the Government which is now before us! Let the Government speak to-day to us, their children. That is all I have to say.

Te Hapimana: Welcome the young chief of Tuhoe! Welcome, my son, under the feet of my Government! In days gone by you trod the path with the King of New Zealand, with the Hauhaus and the Ringa-tus, and the result of this trouble to yourselves was the loss of the land, the loss of the people. But now a new light dawns upon me: I see you associated with my Government; I see you travelling in company with them, and looking after them. Welcome! Welcome! Trust my Government, cling to my Government, and the Government will be a friend to you. It will rest with you as to whether good will result or bad. Let us know, let us be satisfied, that you have led them over our territory. Hearken, O my son, hearken to my words! Do not attach yourself to the Government to-day and leave it to-morrow. If the Government will not do you justice in the near future and still imposes heavy burdens on you, do not resent it as in days of yore in the Native style, but point out to the Government where they are wrong. Although we have been told that this visit is only for an hour or two hours, I shall take up most of that time myself. When I say to you, my son, this is my Government, that you should cherish this treasure of mine, I do not mean that I prefer this one to the previous ones which were in alliance with our chiefs who have departed. The people who established this place asked the Government to spread its protection over the land and the people. All the big chiefs of this district were supporters of the Government as against some of ourselves, who rebelled against the rule of the Queen. They gave it as an injunction that we should look upon the Queen and the Government as heirlooms with which to cherish their memory. This is a day for reason, for interchange of ideas and argument as to who is wrong and who is right. My words to you cease now. Welcome, Mr. Carroll, my light! Welcome to you in company with our Government! I am glad you have performed the journey that you have, and witnessed for yourselves the character of the country and the condition of the people. You have, I hope, carefully explained the sores which exist among the Native people here; they are everywhere. Now that you have reached this place, this district in which you were born, look inside, see its internal position, see what ails the people; make no difference whatever as to the state of one or another. They are all alike in my mind, and their grievances are as much entitled to your consideration as those of the greatest man in the land. The trip of the Premier and yourself through this country may be likened to that of a doctor who visits his patients. Wherever the sick and suffering are, the doctor visits them and supplies remedies. You should take up that position. The women and children will speak, they will lay before you their sufferings. The sufferings are not only with the people, but with the land as well. I must apologize for the absence of the male population of this district. They are all away at Gisborne to attend the meeting there, and all that are left are what you see—chiefly women and children. I am on my way to this meeting, but I stayed behind on hearing of your expected visit, so that the women and children of this place would have some one to speak for them. That is all to you, Mr. Carroll. Welcome the Premier! Welcome the head of the Government! The persons who have journeyed over the Maori districts and visited the Maori people; and as you have thought fit to come and see the Native people to hear from them what has been troubling them, to see for yourself what is wrong with them, I welcome you as the Native Minister. You have two races under your administration, the European race and the Maori race. I am sorry, and it is a matter for regret, that coexistent with your journey, your visit to the Maori people, you find them in small numbers. You are the captain of the great canoe of the State, you have precious souls on board, and you have to see that the ship is safely taken into its haven. (Song.)

Toha said,—Welcome the Premier, and welcome Mr. Carroll! We need not tell you that this place is Wairoa. Its people have not been favoured by a visit from the Government since the days of Sir Donald McLean. We thought at first your visit to this district was only to the Europeans, that they might have an opportunity of laying their matters before you. But now you have come here and visited the Maori section of your people, welcome! When Mr. Carroll was our representative we petitioned him to get the Government to empower the Native Land Court to investigate certain land which had been given back to us in the day of trouble, but it appears through the peculiarity of the law that the Native Land Court has no power. I made two trips to Wellington in reference to this land question. It is a very big grievance to us, and it was during the Atkinson Administration that I raised the question. The Government of that day sympathised with us, and concurred that an injustice had been done, but no step whatever was taken to relieve us. Now that you are in power, we lay the same thing before you. I will never cease applying to Parliament, no matter what Government is in power, to have these troubles attended to. These lands were given back to our chiefs and our people by Sir Donald McLean in his day. All we ask you is to look into this matter, and if you perceive that there is justice in our demand, then in the interest of justice give it to us. It is not a very serious thing, it does not affect many people; it is only a matter between ourselves. All we want is that the Native Land Court should be empowered to investigate the true title to this land. I have always considered it a very small matter, that could be easily set right. I have a number of times asked Parliament to redress this little grievance, but have waited in vain, page 98 there has been no result; and I began to think that questions of a serious character might be treated the same way. Shortly, our trouble is this: Certain lands were ceded by us to the Government. After certain portions were selected, and absolutely vested in the Crown, it was agreed that the balance was to be returned to us. There was no Court to investigate who the owners were. The Government scheduled out the lands; but we now want this land investigated by the Court to see who are the owners, or whether they have been left out and others included who are not the real owners. I know the latter has been the case, and so I hail with satisfaction your visit to us on this occasion, which will allow us an opportunity of laying before you this matter, that affects not only myself but the whole of my people. It is purely a matter of adjustment. We want the titles adjusted. That is all I have to say. You can consider this subject.

The Rev. Tamihana said,—I quite agree with the remarks of the last speaker. That is really our trouble in this part. Although it is in connection with different lands I am speaking, they are in the same category. I have petitioned Parliament over and over again—before Mr. Carroll was our representative, and even during his time—in reference to 300 acres which should have been returned and which were promised by the Government, but this has never been given effect to. These acres are lost somewhere or another. Another matter is this: After the first fight here the lands were confiscated. The boundaries were laid down. The majority of the pakehas at that time represented the Government, and in laying down the line they declared that from a certain point the land outside that line should be returned to the Natives. Now, we are not clear whether this has been done or not, but we are certain we have not got the land. This is in the Taramarama Block. The 300 acres, which was arranged should come back to us, has never reached us.

Hone Taune said,—I can scarcely find words to do justice to the sentiments I feel and to properly welcome our illustrious guests. I may not be able to do it in the old style, but all I can say now is. Welcome the Premier! We are very glad of your visit and Mr. Carroll's to the district. Excessive joy took possession of the hearts of the people of this district on hearing that the Premier of the colony and Mr. Carroll were visiting it. You, the Premier, have arrived, and you will find our people—the Native people in this place—bewailing their grievances. Of course, so far as your colleague is concerned, he is one of us, he was born in this place. Our greetings are directed to you. We are suffering under the operation of the Native Land Court laws which have emanated from the House of Parliament. One of our special grievances is on account of the old law which only admitted of ten persons being put into Crown grants as owners of the land. They were morally trustees. In those cases there were only ten grantees who were included in the title to a block of land. They should have been only representatives of the people and the owners in bulk, but they became absolute owners, and in many cases these grantees willed away the heritage of the people—and by law had the power to do so—to strangers. That is the great trouble here, in some occupying land, believing it to be theirs, knowing they have claims thereto against those who are in the Crown grant as legal owners but have no right. We suffer also under the Act recently passed by the Legislature which enacts that whenever Natives sell a block of land, 25 acres shall be reserved for their own use. Now, if a large block of land is sold by the Natives, 25 acres will not be enough to maintain them. I support the contention of both Toha and Tamihana that these reserves which were intended for us, which were all promised to be given back, should be seen to. The reserves, in which I myself am interested, are Tanikaka and others.

Hekiera: Welcome young Kereru, bring our friends with you I Welcome the Premier! Welcome Mr. Carroll! Come and see your people who are heavy laden! We have suffered through the recent floods about a week ago. One flood has destroyed all our crops. We want relief; give it.

The Premier: Friends of the Native race, men, women, and children, salutations! You have expressed your very great pleasure at my being present amongst you to-day. Let me tell you the pleasure is mutual; that I am pleased to be here with you, and that the words which have fallen from the several speakers who have addressed me and my friends have gladdened my heart. I shall leave you to-day knowing that I have friends here, that the Government have friends here, and that you desire to live at peace and in good-will with all men. You have said that you were pleased when you heard I was coming to your district, that you thought I was coming to the district only to see the Europeans, but when you heard I was coming to see you you were delighted. My mission on this present occasion, and the reason for my travels through these parts of the colony, have been to see your noble race more particularly than to see the Europeans. The latter have advantages which have not fallen to your lot. The Europeans have the Press to protect their interests and to speak on their behalf. The Native race have not this advantage; and I should have been wanting in my duty as head of the Government of the day had I not met the Natives face to face and asked them what their troubles were. We are one people. We belong to one mother. Colour makes no difference to the Great Father who watches over all, and to Him, we must look for assistance and love. We are only here for a period, for a very short time indeed, page 99 and while here we ought to live in love and friendship one with the other, irrespective of race or colour. "Do unto others as ye would they should do unto you." So I say the pakehas, who are the dominant power, should follow out that precept, and do as the Natives did when the Europeans were very few in this country. You have to-day touched upon a subject which is all-important. You have said that your people are passing away, not arriving at a ripe old age, but dying before their time. We find you are a noble race, and yet disappearing prematurely from the face of the earth. The world is wide, there is room enough for us all in this land, and it is not the desire of the Government, nor my desire, speaking on behalf of the pakehas in this country, that you should disappear, but it is our desire to inquire into this, see what is the cause, and apply a remedy. You have said that I came amongst you very much as a physician, as a doctor would visit his patients, and after seeing them would prescribe for their ailments. You have well described the position; you could not have put it more plainly. I am here to-day as a physician, as the Government is desirous of prescribing for your ailments and, if possible, restoring your health. Yours is the sickness of the mind. Your troubles are more on your minds than in your bodies, and yet even in that respect there is trouble. I have found on my travels in the districts in the north, and with the Natives I have met in other parts, very much the same trouble that affects you. Promises have been made and left unfulfilled, and most of the trouble is in respect to the land. Is it to be wondered at that those Natives who have been in the past unfriendly to the Government should doubt the Government, when we find those who have lost their people while supporting the Government not having the promises made to them fulfilled? You welcome here to-day the young chief of Tuhoe who is with the party, and what was said to him I greatly appreciated. They were words of wisdom, and I am sure will bear good fruit in the future. We are deeply indebted to Tupaea, our guide, the young chief of Tuhoe, who has brought us here in safety amongst you to-day. He will now see another world and, as it were, another people, a people of his own race, though of a different tribe, who have always been friendly to the Government, and who are living side by side with the Europeans. There are some evils that he will see that I hope will be a lesson to him. He will see, and has no doubt seen—they are here in your midst to-day—those of the Native race giving way to a very great evil. That evil has done and is doing more harm than any other evil that has befallen the Natives. I allude to strong drink. He will see other things that are good. He has now seen the Rev. Mr. Tamihana, who is following the mission of his Great Master, and he has heard his words of love delivered as a message from that Great Master, who is greater than the Government, and greater than all those who are or ever have been in New Zealand. Then he will have heard, perhaps, for the first time that you people here are only representing the wahines and tamariki, that your great men have gone away to a meeting at Gisborne, and, as a wise man, he will have said to himself, "What is the good of their being at Gisborne; taking part in a farce, when the head of the Government himself is here in your midst"? Well, the Government loves the mothers, wives, sweethearts, daughters, and children of the Native race. Hence I am just as well pleased to meet the women and children as I would have been to meet the men who have gone away to take part in that farce. I will speak for the welfare of the women and children. I say that we, the Government, are desirous of promoting the well-being of the Native race, and of conserving to them the land which belongs to them, and of improving their position in the world. We see a people who, if the Europeans were in the same position, would be considered very well to do indeed. They are rich in land; but that land is useless because it is not producing, and the owners are living in almost absolute poverty. Land is only valuable to mankind when it is producing. The great trouble that besets the Natives arises from the fact that each Native has not got his own particular bit of land to cultivate. Some will not work; some reap where they have not sown. That is the curse of the Natives in this country. That is the mist that is over the minds of the men of the Native race. They see this going on, but do nothing to stop it. In time they will refuse to work, and will leave the wahines to do the cultivation. If I had the power, I would subdivide every plot of Native land and put each of the owners on his own particular plot, and see the husbands, wives, and children cultivating it so that they may live, and know that what you are doing is for the benefit of yourselves for all time I have been through country during the last few weeks where, in former times, prior to the advent of civilisation, there were fields of green waving corn. At that time the Native race was prosperous. All toiled; all were living in peace, happiness, and affluence. Now their land is covered with tea-tree, fern, and that abominable nuisance the "missionaries." No one will go to cut down or burn the tea-tree and face the "missionaries." And why do not they do it? Simply because they do not know who they are doing it for. If they knew they were doing it for their wives and children, they would take off their coats and go to work as their forefathers did of yore. This brings me to the several matters that have been brought under my notice by you to-day. You have told me that land has been vested in ten owners; that it was originally intended that these ten owners should be trustees for the tribe, but, by some mysterious misconstruction of the law, you find that these persons have dealt with the land as if it were their own, leaving the rest landless and in a state of destitution. If anything was to occur of that character with the Europeans the Supreme Court would at once rectify it, upon an application page 100 being made thereto. Of course, there is great difficulty in connection with this matter. The land may be all let. It may be that these persons have disposed of it to innocent persons, who have purchased it thinking they were treating with the persons who held the titles. These people may have paid their money, and may be now in possession. I am grieved to hear that petition after petition has been made to the Government pointing this out to them, and that no action has been taken. This must have occurred before the land was disposed of. If there is still land remaining in the hands of those persons who were named in the deeds as actual trustees, if it is not too late, I myself would favour inquiry with a view to prevent further evil. I have met with several such cases since I have been Native Minister, and in all cases which have come under my notice where there is good ground for believing the persons named are only trustees, I have granted an inquiry. I believe that next session we shall require to pass legislation to give effect to the inquiries made. I may tell you there is great danger in disturbing titles, because other titles have been granted upon these titles, and very great care will have to be taken. My advice to you is: put down in writing the particular blocks, the respective owners, and the whole of the circumstances connected with this matter, and send it down to me, giving all details, so that I can first of all decide from that information as to whether or not an inquiry is necessary. The next subject I will touch upon will be as regards the 300 acres which you say has disappeared. My reply to that is: give me the particulars in writing, the particular lands, and the whole of the circumstances, so that I may deal with that also after inquiry. The next question you brought under my notice was where you had ceded land to the Crown and lands were given you in return, and that the wrong owners had been put in the schedule of these lands. You want that adjusted? The law cannot, as I pointed out, enable inquiry to be made. You desire it to go before the Court, but the law would not permit it going to the Court for inquiry. That is the true interpretation of the law. There is good ground for an alteration in the law, and I am at a loss to understand why an amendment was not made. In respect to this matter, you inform me that a petition has been sent down to Parliament, or the Government, and that no action has been taken thereon. I am not—and it would be unfair to hold me—responsible for the mistakes and errors of another Administration, but I do assure you that it is my earnest desire to do justice, and, where injustice has been done, to see the stigma cast upon those who have done such injustice. I would therefore advise you in this, as in the other two cases, to reduce to writing the particulars of the grievance, and send it down to me at Wellington, so that I may, after inquiry, decide whether legislation should take place to meet the case. The last subject that I will touch upon is the one which to me was the most painful of all, and that is that, owing to the late flood—one almost unprecedented in its character, nothing like it having taken place for the last twenty years—your food has all been destroyed. That is a most serious matter indeed. Although you are suffering under this, probably it has been sent as a lesson. From this misfortune good may result. You have lands that the flood could not have touched, lands that belong to these people, yet they have not been cultivated. Had their land been cultivated, the food could not have been taken away by the floods, and you would have had that to fall back upon. You know the old teaching that if you build your house upon sand the sand disappears, and down comes your house. You only cultivate on the banks of the river. The flood has come, and your food has gone. The Pakehas have an old saying, and that is, "Never put all your eggs into the one basket." Now, the lesson taught by this flood is this: Do not always rely upon small cultivations, on the small quantity of food on the banks of the river, that is liable at any moment to be swept away by a flood. I see stalwart men here, they are very numerous, and a greater number are away at Gisborne. They would be better cultivating the land here. There are quite sufficient men here to cultivate it. You are either idle, or there is something that prevents you from cultivating. Your forefathers were—and I do not desire to hurt your feelings by saying this—as good, if not better, men than you, and yet they toiled and cultivated the soil. This is the mist that overhangs your minds; this is the gulf which you cannot bridge; and to remove it, and to get you back to honest and industrious toil, so that food may be found for your wives and children, that is why I am here to-day. You have said that I was your parent; well, I have spoken to you as a father would speak to the children he loves. You know what has often been said: that the parent who does not deal firmly with his children when they do wrong and fails to correct them—that those children in after life will blame that very parent for not doing it. My words to you to-day have been of a corrective nature; they have been used in your interest; and, again, as a parent, I will tell you this, that I do not wish—indeed, I should be very sorry—that any of you should want for food. I will have inquiries made as to the loss you have sustained, and, if necessary, the Government will render you assistance in this your great tribulation. The Rev. Mr. Walsh is here to-day, and the Rev. Mr. Tamihana is also here in your midst. I will ask them to write to me on the subject, so that I shall be able to deal with it; and upon their reports as to your trouble in this respect, if there is the difficulty you have pointed out, and there is need, I will supply that need by letting you have the necessary food. It is too late for you now to cultivate, the season has gone by; but we must help you in your necessity. Never again stand before a Minister and say this trouble has overtaken you, whilst if you had used caution page 101 the trouble would never have occurred. I have nothing further to say to you but to express, in conclusion, the very great pleasure it has been to me to be with you to-day, and to thank you for the hearty welcome you have accorded my colleague and myself. The former, by the way, is no longer a little boy, he is a big boy. I also wish to thank you for the welcome you have accorded to the representative of the Tuhoe. We now wish you a kind and friendly good-bye.

The party then proceeded to