The Morning Meeting at Te Whaiti.

On resuming at 8 a.m. on the following morning, Tuhi Tuhi said,—These are the subjects we wish to place before the Premier: (1.) A school to be established at Te Whaiti. We do not wish our children to remain in ignorance any longer. This is a matter for the delegates to settle when they get to Wellington. We agree to give three acres of land as a site for the school. That we can settle to-day. (2.) The survey of To Whaiti. This is a matter the people think they should consider, and then submit their decision to you in Wellington. These are all the subjects I have to put forward. Others will probably bring other subjects before you. I have to inform you that the old man of the Ngatiwhare has only just now arrived.

The Premier: It is very pleasing indeed to me to hear the words which have fallen from the lips of my friend who has just sat down, more especially as regards the school. I look upon the opening of a school here as the means of elevating the Ngatiwhare, and placing them in a superior position. To be educated is to be strong in mind and body. I shall feel when once the school has been established that my visit to the Ngatiwhare has been a blessing to them, and that the children will bless their parents for the decision they have arrived at to have a school. As regards a definite decision upon the matter, I understand that, and will mention to the Minister of Education with pleasure the offer of the three acres of land for the school site. I can, with some degree of reflection upon the pakehas, say that when the Natives agree to have a school, they are generous and devote land for the purpose. The pakehas have never yet—though they have had the benefits of education—shown the bright example that has been set them by the Native race. There is another advantage: When the school is established here, if you get a good teacher, and he has a good wife, they will probably understand something about medicine, and when sickness overtakes you may be able to give you some relief. I am of the opinion that all teachers sent into Nativ districts should be married men, and should have a knowledge of medicine so that they might be able to alleviate the sufferings of those by whom they are surrounded. On behalf of the Government I will see that they are supplied with medicines so that they can help you. Not only that, but when there are matters of public importance transpiring in other parts of the world they will be in a position to let the Natives know by telling the children, who can then tell their parents. You would have amongst you a superior man, who would be able to educate the children and assist the adults, besides acting as Postmaster, &c. You could then get letters through to Te page 82 Whaiti. All these advantages will come to you with the education of your children. I told you last night that when we came to talk business I should let you know what was really in your interest, and I have only pointed out as yet one or two benefits that would accrue to you if you let civilisation come to Te Whaiti. As regards the survey, you have told me you are considering that amongst yourselves, and will let me know later on in Wellington. I told the Tuhoe that, at any time they found themselves in trouble, and had matters that they desired to lay before the Government, the Government could not always go to see the Tuhoe and Ngatiwhare, but they could come to Wellington, and that we should be pleased at any time to meet them. I was your guest last night. When you come to Wellington you shall be the guests of the Government. I know it is the want of means that keeps you isolated and prevents you seeing the Government. You have been blamed for this, because it is said, "Oh, they do not come to see the Government; they stop in their own country isolated, and they remain there"; and the people have blamed you because they have not thought of your necessities. They never think how they would act if they were in your place. Now I have seen what I have, I can understand it. It must not occur again. Now that the two races are brought together, there must be a bond of union so that it never can be again torn asunder. I must ask you to put everything shortly, as we want to be on the road again.

Tuhi said,—If we decide on the survey, 5d. an acre is too heavy a charge.

The Premier: I quite agree with you. There are two things the Government should do. The Government should make the surveys and send out respectable and good men who will act friendly towards the Natives and make the surveys at the lowest possible cost. All the Government want is to see the Natives get their titles properly ascertained. We do not want to see the laud eaten up by expenses. It has been so, I admit, in the past, but we must try for the future to stop expense as much as we can, so as to have the land for the Natives.

Rewi said,—Although Mr. Carroll belongs to us, I must address myself to the Premier. We recognise the two as standing between the Europeans and the Natives, and that is a matter for congratulation. Furthermore, we ought to be extremely pleased at what has happened. I thought that I should load myself with my subjects and trouble and lay them before you, but you have come to me and asked me to state them myself. The main subject for which I wish your presence here is the school, so that our children may be enlightened. I want the light of education and civilisation to pierce the darkness which has enveloped us for so long, and although this subject of the school has been mentioned by the first speaker, it is a matter of such importance that I hope you will excuse my mentioning it again. I have heard your reply and am much pleased therewith. My second subject is the survey of the road. Although brought before you by the Ngatimaniwha, it will bear repeating. The road from Ohinemutu to Galatea is opened, but now we want the connection between Galatea and Te Whaiti completed. You saw evidence yourself yesterday in coming along that it is not a road fit for carting produce to these parts. You saw the wagon with a tent over it. I want this road completed and widened as soon as possible. I now leave the matter in your hands; it will be for you to decide whether it is to be done soon or to be delayed. As far as I am concerned, I should like it done to-morrow if it were possible. Send me word when you get to Wellington. Do not let this work stand over till June or July. As you touched upon the advantages of communication and other questions, I may say that you must first establish the school, and everything will evolve from that. Where a set of subjects are not identical with each other, then I would make a special demand, and that demand is for the mail. Now, about the survey: that is placed in my hands. I hold it; I do not want any one else, either Maori or European, to interfere with what concerns me only. I do not want to treat with outsiders respecting the question of my land. Now you have come here I announce to you my decision in the matter. I am going to get the survey carried out. Other people have spoken to you about surveys and their own respective matters; but the Ngatiwhare are speaking to you now on their own platform. I myself went in person to Auckland to arrange about a survey of Te Whaiti, and to see the Government about it, but the Government put so many obstacles in my way and loaded the survey so heavily with expenses that nothing came of it. I have nothing to say about Tuhoe's matters; they can look after their own affairs. I confine myself to my own business, and this is what I want done with my affairs. I am the Ngatiwhare. This is another matter: I have never received anything at all from the Europeans, but what I now ask for is a flag. I want you to give us one. Wharepakau is to be the name of the flag, which is the origin of the Ngatiwhare. Another request I have to make to you is this: I would like the Government to give us a section of land at Ohinemutu. We are constantly going there; that is our chief port, as it were. We suffer very much in going on our journey to Ohinemutu on account of having no place to stay at when we get there. Other tribes who visit Ohinemutu have their relations living there with whom they can stay. They belong to a separate tribe altogether from ours; they are not relatives of ours. You really must give effect to this application.

The Premier: To save time I may say that the request is already granted. There shall be some land at Ohinemutu set aside for the Ngatiwhare.

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Rewi, continuing: I would like a section opposite the boiling springs, so as to obviate the necessity for a fire to cook our food. There are many other subjects, but the school will settle them; all will follow in due course.

Hiwawa Whatanui said,—All subjects have been mentioned, but I will just run over them. First of all the school: that has been replied to. I may tell you we have not been asleep. We have already made an application to the Minister of Education about a school, and he has replied to us in the affirmative. I have got the letter from him dated 3rd of March, 1894. You will see the Ngatiwhare has already been in communication on this matter. Now, what I want to say is, we are holding this question of a school tightly in our hands, and when you get to Wellington I will communicate with you, and the whole question can be settled there. The particulars as to site and everything can then be arranged absolutely. I also have the survey question under action, and I wish to keep that also in my hand and fix it up absolutely with you in Wellington. It is too big a matter to arrange by letter. The same will apply to the question of the road. All these matters we can arrange without shifting about between this and that place. Any communications you have in respect to these matters I wish addressed to me. My address is Hiwawa Whatanui, Te Whaiti, Fort Galatea, via Rotorua, Auckland.

Raharuhi said,—I indorse the remarks of the previous speakers. The mana of the Queen is already at Te Whaiti. Get a road there and the survey carried out. It is well to have the titles to these lands ascertained. It is for our benefit especially. In the old days our education was confined to teaching the young the use of firearms. Their physical development was attended to; that was the chief feature in our old school, but now we must educate the mind. The mind is the power of the present age.

Paraone Meihana said,—It was only last evening that myself and the old man arrived from Napier, and we have not had an opportunity of giving you welcome, and, as we are anxious to do so, I say, Salutations to you all! Welcome! I indorse all the remarks of the previous speakers in respect to the school and the survey. In these matters treat with the Ngatiwhare. So far as this place is concerned, I do not want you to start a school or survey to-day, but when you get to Wellington you will probably see some of us there, and we can arrange everything.

The chief Hamiora Potakurua said,—Salutations to both of you! I welcome you in the name of our Blessed Saviour, whose religion it was to love and diffuse that love throughout all mankind. Let us here to-day emulate the example of that Great Teacher and the love of that Great Master. With respect to the different subjects which have been submitted to you, there is nothing to say beyond supporting what has already fallen from the lips of the younger people. The survey, the school, and other matters have already been mentioned by them. I desire all these wishes of theirs fulfilled before I pass away to my forefathers. You can see I am an old man, and have not much longer to live. Let me see these things come to pass before I go hence to be no more seen. Lot them take place while I am alive, O Premier! The principal subjects which have been laid before you—the road, the survey, and the school—these sum up the whole of the business affecting this tribe. These are the subjects which gladden my heart. I say again, I am alive at the present moment, let these things be done in my time. That is all.

The Premier: I am deeply gratified to find the elder chief of the tribe here this morning. It must be pleasing to the Ngatiwhare that he has arrived before I left, and that I have seen him in person and in the presence of all. I will now shake hands with this old and respected chief, and in person welcome his presence here to-day. I rejoice at having had an opportunity of shaking hands with him before he passes away. This is the position the Government, my colleague, and myself take up. We say that as every day and every week of time that passes without your having your titles defined, there is great danger. We must see that this is done—that justice is done to you before you are gathered to your forefathers. You are the connecting link with the past; you represent the past generations. With regard to the younger men, if this link is severed evil will befall them, misfortune will befall the younger generations. Others will reap where they have not sown; others will get in error that which belongs to the Ngatiwhare. I therefore, so far as the Government is concerned, wish to have that which belongs to you clearly defined and satisfactorily settled. I think your voices have a right to be heard and your wishes complied with, more especially as regards the survey of Te Whaiti. When I see you in Wellington I shall then have seen the people right through the district and can come to a conclusion. You know my views in the matter. I wish to be fair and do what is just to all concerned. I will therefore finish my journey before I give a final decision. I do, as a friend, as one wishing the Ngatiwhare and the whole of the tribes well, advise them, before it is too late, to have the titles to the land ascertained, so that they can know what belongs to them and what will go down to their children. I will now leave the question of survey, and go to that of a road between here and Galatea. I may tell you in that respect that after hearing your wishes in the matter I am favourably disposed, and if I can arrange for it to be gone on with I will do so even before next June. Wherever a road is made, progress and prosperity follow it. Whilst the schools educate the mind through the schoolmaster, the road also educates because it gives the older people an opportunity to meet their page 84 friends, and they get the news of the outer world. Without those roads their visits would be very few and far between. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than for the old man to live to see you able to drive in a buggy from here to Galatea. I notice he is getting frail, and riding on horseback would be exhausting, but he could drive in a nice buggy along a good road. If there was a good road between here and Whakatane, and between here and Ohinemutu, the visits of Ministers would be more frequent than they have been in the past. And now we come to the request of the Ngati whare, that they may have a flag given to them to commemorate this visit, and thereby to know that you have the same protection afforded you as the other parts of the Queen's dominions have, because the sun never sets on her possessions. If you want that flag and that protection you shall have it. I have already told you that, as regards setting apart a piece of land for the Ngatiwhare at Ohinemutu, it shall be done. You shall have that land. If you had a piece of land there upon which you could camp it would be of benefit, and I will see that you have it. I think I have now spoken upon all the subjects. I am glad to see that letter you have received from the Education Department. If you have no map to mark the principal piece of land I will get the Chief Surveyor to send you one, so that all these particulars can be fixed, and the three acres marked off which you wish to give, and then we can get the matter completed without delay. As to the investigation of the titles to the Whirinaki and Herewera blocks, the Government have no power over the law. When once a decision is arrived at, the Government have no power over rehearings, and cannot interfere, unless there has been absolute fraud. The Supreme Court is the only tribunal that can interfere. But it would be well if you were to reduce to writing the matters complained of, and send the particulars down to me, so that I may make inquiries as to how the affair stands. I will now conclude by expressing to you the very great pleasure I have experienced on this my visit to the Ngatiwhare. I must also express my thanks to Hiwawa Whatanui and his wife, who, on behalf of their grandfather, have done the honours of the house, and have so much contributed to our comfort while here. They have entertained us, and we thank them for their attention. I hope the Ngatiwhare will rest satisfied that they have nothing to regret. We have been well entertained and received here, and shall remember our visit amongst you with very great pleasure indeed. Salutations and a kind farewell to the Ngatiwhare, and may you prosper!

The party then proceeded on their journey to