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The Pamphlet Collection of Sir Robert Stout: Volume 24

The Land act and the Land Policy

The Land act and the Land Policy.

Now (continued Mr Vogel) I wish to refer to the Land Question.—(Applause.) A handle was made of that question, upon which to hang the opposition to the Government, to which I have referred; and especially was there opposition to the course of the Government, in insisting that, before they would aid with their recommendation any resolution of the Council as to Hundreds, there should be proper investigation as to the land which it was wished to have declared into Hundreds. I have never met, outside the members of the Opposition, any one, no matter how extreme an advocate of Hundreds he was—and I have heard it said by one person that he thought the whole Province should be a Hundred—who denied that the course taken by the Government was a proper and just one. The Government asked, that when a request for a Hundred came from a private member, there should be an examination by a competent authority. The Provincial Council has no better authority for such a purpose, than a Committee, carefully chosen, of its own members.—(Hear, hear.) The Government, having the right to name the Committee, made no attempt to "pack" it. When an objection was made to my being on the Committee, I yielded the place at once to the Provincial Solicitor; and subsequently two members, notoriously in favor of a large addition to Hundreds, were added to the Committee. The Government said to the Opposition, "You ask that these lands should he declared into Hundreds. It is not well that the question should be tied up. If, without previous investigation, a recommendation is sent up to the Governor, it will be disregarded. Have evidence on the question taken; and then, if the Council approves of these Hundreds, the Government will either resign office, or will agree to do ail in its power to carry out the recommendation of the Council." What course could be fairer?—(Hear, hear.) The particular cases to which I refer were examined into; the House adopted the recommendations of page 3 the Select Committee; and those recommendations have gone, or will go—it is simply a question of time in preparing the necessary maps—to the Governor, with the recommendation of the Superintendent and the Executive, that they be complied with. Whatever you may have heard on this subject, I ask you to judge of it from what I have now stated; and to say whether the course pursued was not—not only perfectly fair, but—the course which any sensible persons desiring to see Hundreds declared would have themselves adopted.—(Hear, hear.) I must say a few words as to the Land Act. I opposed the Bill, in the Assembly, to the very utmost; because I felt quite certain that the people of the Province did not understand its nature, and, what is more, I believe that but a very small section of the people understands it yet. I consider that the Bill was, to a great extent, a sham: while it pretended to provide for the extension of Hundreds, it did not, and it could not, do so. I felt that the old system of Hundreds, as it was developed in the earlier days of the Province, could not be provided for by that Bill, nor by any Bill providing for an extension of Pastoral Leases. You had three conditions when the system of Hundreds was brought into operation. Firstly, you had a large and plentiful quantity of good land; Secondly, you had an Improvement Clause, which was supposed to be operative, which deterred capitalists from investing largely; and, Thirdly, there was very little capital here to be invested. But when capital became plentiful and good land scarce—and when it was found that the Improvement Clause had no effect—the declaration of fresh Hundreds simply led, as experience elsewhere suggested would be the case, to the lands being bought in large quantities by those who possessed capital. Major Richardson, who has recently spoken, at the Clutha, in a way which would lead people to suppose that the Government were opposed to principles which he is in the habit of saying are very dear to him—Major Richardson has frequently said, before Select Committees, and otherwise publicly, that if there was no Improvement Clause, and if the best land was not reserved from the grasp of the speculator, it was impossible to carry out the Hundreds principle in its integrity.—(Hear, hear.) Now, the really best agricultural land in the Province has been to a great extent parted with—and the question of Hundreds resolves itself into this other question, "Who shall have the grazing rights—who shall have the pastoral occupation of a considerable portion of the country?"—(Hear, hear.) I say again, when the Land Bill was in the Assembly, it was my opinion that the people of Otago did not understand its nature. If it was really desired that the Hundred system, as it had been, should be carried out, the only way of doing it was by allowing the Pastoral Licenses to run out, and renewing, or giving leases, over only a limited quantity of country-, leaving the rest for Hundreds or Commonage. I did all that man could do to oppose the passing of the Bill: Mr Burns, Mr Reynolds, Mr Mac-andrew, and myself, in fact, did all that we could. There was quite sufficient excuse for not passing the Bill, for the Resolutions, as sent up from the Provincial Council, were so far unintelligible, that it was most difficult to know what the Council desired; and besides, the Council, when it passed the Resolutions, was in its last throes, being about to be dissolved. But the Assembly refused any postponement, and the Bill was carried. It was understood that that Bill was to be a final Bill. It happened, that I shortly afterwards became connected with the Provincial Government; and then, that operation had to be given to the Bill, or a refusal to be given as to the granting of Pastoral Leases. I thought—and the different result surprises me still—that the clause as to those leases would be taken advantage of only for those runs, the licenses of which were about to fall in. I could not understand why a runholder not so situated should agree to pay 7d a head for sheep, for, say, seven years of his license period, because of getting thereby another 10 years by way of lease. To my astonishment, however, all the runholders, almost, came in under the clause: there was a clear understanding that if the Government did not refuse leases for the licenses about to fall in, the holders of long-dated licenses would come in. I, as Treasurer, had the opportunity presented to me, of securing a Pastoral Rental commencing at L50,000 a-year, and increasing to L80,000. Could I advise flying in the face of the law, which provided that leases might be given for licenses, and so throw away this magnificent rental? It was impossible for us to say that we would fly in the face of the Council and of the Assembly, by a wholesale refusal of licenses. We were, in reality, called upon to refuse all, or to grant all. It may be supposed by some persons, that page 4 the Government had the opportunity of saying to a runholder, "We will grant you a lease over part of your run only but, owing to the want of a provision in the Act, by which the license could be continued over the part of a run for which a lease was refused, the result would have been, that if a runholder got a lease over only part of his run, he would have forfeited his right to the rest of that run. It was very certain that no runholder, for the sake of substituting a lease for a license over part of his run, would have consented to sacrifice the other part. So, then, we had to refuse or to grant leases as a whole; and, that being so, we did this—which cannot prejudice the Province, and which may be most valuable to it: we required those who took leases to sign covenants that they would give up a portion of the land for sale, if they were required by the Government to do so. During his tenure of office as Superintendent, even Major Richardson was wont to complain, that he could not sell blocks of land, within runs, for purposes of revenue. We have secured that power; and I say that the covenants of the run-holders represent a very large money value to the Province. I have pointed out to those who have complained of the action taken in this matter, that the Government can at any time burn the covenants—and the runholders will be delighted if the Government do so; but I do contend that, in what they have done, the Government have not been unmindful of the interests of the Province. I want to show you that, whatever may be our opinions of the Hundred system, its old purpose—that of leaving land ready to be bought up from time to time, as people required it—cannot, under present circumstances, be secured, nor could not have been at all under the Land Act, unless we had refused to lease a large portion of the pastoral estate. Taking the Hundreds that were proclaimed in 1805, I find that in Awamoko, there are only 16 licensees for the year, and that three of them hold, respectively, 10,000, 6,781, and 4,500 acres. It is most evident that the proclamation of that Hundred has not answered its purpose, of keeping 80 and 100 acre farms ready for immigrants. In the Kakanui Hundred, there are only four licensees, and their holdings are 8042, 8000, 5900, and 50 acres. Has that Hundred been declared for the benefit of small farmers or immigrants? In neither the Waikawa nor Catlins Hundred is there a single licensee; but it must be said that the country is very bushy. In the Tuturau Hundred, there are 18 licensees; and three of them hold 1400, 1000, and 1000 acres. In the Mokoreta Hundred, there are 12 licensees; in Toi Toes, 9; and in Maruwhenua (only 8000 acres remaining unsold in the Hundred) there are but three licensees, who hold respectively 4500, 5100, and 4500 acres. In the Pomahaka Hundred, which was declared in 1801, there is only one licensee; and he has the right of running cattle over 15,000 acres of country. Many of you have seen the Hundred system in operation in the early days of the Province, when I believe it worked excellently; and you have, and rightly, a veneration for an institution which has served you well. But it does not follow, that you ought not now to look reasonably into the matter, so as to see whether, while you still use the name "Hundreds," the course of legislation has not shut you out from giving effect to the principle you formerly recognised under that name.—(Hear, hear.) In opposing the Land Bill, I left it open to the Province to have, to some extent, regained the power of giving effect to that old principle; and those who opposed me and others in the Council, and who supported the Bill in the Assembly, have cut away from those who wanted to attempt to carry out the old principle and spirit of Hundreds, all possibility of their doing so. We have not to deal with theory, but with practice. The Government have acted with perfect fairness on the Land Question. I ask you, "In the course which the Government i took as to Hundreds, did they not do more for Hundreds than they would have done if they had simply allowed resolutions to be passed, without any evidence being taken?"—(Hear, hear.) I ask you also, what pretence there can be, for saying that the Hundreds question was at the bottom of the Opposition during last session? I wish you to understand this, very clearly: It must not be understood that the Government mean that any obstacle should be thrown in the way of the obtainment of such land as is required for purposes of settlement. Any persons administering the Government of Otago should, and must, see that there is ample land open for sale to those who require it for settlement. There is. no difficulty in the way of doing that. We have a Pastoral Rental of between L50,000 and L60,000; and, even if we have to buy for the purpose, I say we must take care that there is plenty of land available for settlement. I had the curiosity yester- page 5 day, to ascertain what land there now i surveyed into sections and open for sale There are persons who do not scruple to say that there is no land to be obtained but, what is the fact? There are now 1330 lots surveyed, in small farms, say from about 25 to 500 acres, ready for applicants. And we must not forget that there is a new system in operation over a portion of the country, the Goldfields—that of agricultural settlement. There are now 246,000 acres open for agricultural lease on the Goldfields, and more land is being, from week to week, acquired for the purpose. I find that we have already granted 599 such leases, and that there are 216 applications under consideration. As you no doubt know, an agricultural lease means taking up 50 acres under lease, with a clause giving the right to purchase at the end of three years. With these things as facts, it cannot be fairly said that the Government is unmindful of the obligation to keep land open for settlement; and another fact is, that the Government is endeavoring to obtain fresh land. With the money put at its command last session, it is possible that one of the best pieces of land in the country will be obtained and be opened under the old system of Hundreds. The Government is sincerely anxious to steer clear through the difficult course created by the Land Act. The Government is determined to do justice to the obligations incurred; to see that there shall constantly be land open for settlement; and to obtain that land at the very best possible advantage for the Province.—(Applause.) I beg of you, do not be misled by designing persons. Do not suppose that there is not a very difficult problem to be worked out under the Land Act : and do not for a moment suppose that, by putting a set of dummies on the Government benches, you will get that problem worked out.—(Applause.) Very great capital was made, during the session of the Provincial Council, about a proposal to sell at 10s an acre, land in Hundreds. That was a principle I which I believe, in the first instance, was eminently unfair to those who had purchased in Hundreds, and who were entitled to expect the right to remain to them of running cattle over the unsold portion of the land, until it fetched L1 an acre. But, in any Land Act, there was required to be included a principle of selling land in quantity, for revenue. The Council and the Assembly determined to give effect to the principle of sale at 10s an acre, after Hundreds had been declared seven years: and that was the revenue-raising principle embodied in the Land Act. The Government last session saw that it was absolutely necessary that revenue under the 10s clause should be obtained. Land in the southern Hundreds had been sold under that clause; and the question arose whether the Northern Hundreds should be similarly dealt with. A violent opposition i was got up—an opposition based upon no principle, except that the proposal seemed; to be a popular one to attack the Government upon. Mr Reid was amongst the opponents of the Government on the point. When it was proposed, formerly, that the sale at 10s might be after a Hundred had been declared three years, Air Reid proposed to substitute seven years—and I think he did very rightly. As the law stands, the 10s clause cannot be put into operation without the consent of the Provincial Council; but Mr Reid's plan was to sell without such consent. find that, in the Council, Mr Reid proposed the following amendment:—

That the following be substituted for the portion of the clause embraced in the memo., viz."Provided always, that alter the lands within any Hundred, either already proclaimed or to be proclaimed under the provisions of this Act, shall have remained open for selection and sale for a full period of seven years from the time of the same having been first opened for selection and sale, the portion thereof remaining unsold after such period of seven years may be offered for sale at a price of ten shillings per acre."

Another gentleman who took a very prominent part in the Opposition last session—a gentleman who was a member of the Government which will be historically known as the "No-New-Works Government"—(laughter)—and who, I believe, boasts of being a very extensive landed proprietor and farmer in the Clutha district—Mr Thomson, I mean, who almost led us to believe that he would prefer to "die upon the floor of the House" rather than yield upon the 10s clause—this gentleman, I find, absolutely proposed that, instead of 10s the price should be 5s an acre. This was his proposal, as an amendment, directly after Mr Reid's was negatived:—

That the following words be added, v'z:—"And any portion thereof remaining unsold after a period of seven years, may, with the sanction of the Superintendent and Provincial Council, be offered for sale by public auction to all bidders, at the upset price of five shillings per acre, upon the terms and under the provisions contained in sections 53 54, 55, and 56 of this Act."

page 96

Yu may have, now, a fair idea of the casistency of those who took so prominat a part in obstructing the business of the Council last session.—(Hear, bear.) I and to call your attention to this point, wich seems to be very much forgotten: We are not now in the position we were a few years ago, when it was almost understod that the population of the Province was divided into two classes, calling for superlative attention—the Agricultural and the Pastoral. We have now a third class in the Province, which is essential to its progress—the Industrial.—(Hear, har.) If the landed estate is to be mnipulated purely with a view to profit a few persons, agricultural or pastoral—if we are to overlook the heavy burdens of the country, which the industrial class tae their share in bearing—I say that we shall be altogether shutting the door to this industrial class, which is one of the most valuable the country can possess.—(Applause.) Major Richardson, in his speech at the Clutha, led his hearers to brieve that the whole of the taxation neessarily falls upon the purchasers of lad; and he managed, by implication, totell them, that the farmers had the burden to bear. He said that the runhoders and the merchants "sit lightly upon the surface of society:" that they could get away at a moment's notice, almost, and that the purchasers of land weld have all the burden to bear. I say that a statement of that kind is not only crude—it is mischievous.—(Hear, her.) The industrial portion of the community has a large claim to consideration—n equal claim to that of any other class.—(Applause.) The laboring class, the manufacturing class, the trading class, do not "sit lightly upon the surface of society." If we have wise legislation, thee are ties cemented through residence in he country, by other interests than the mere possession of freehold land, which disentitle us from saying that such persons "it lightly on the surface of society." A mm with freehold estate might realise his property much more easily than a tradesman or a merchant, or a manufacturer, could close his business and dispose of his stock of goods or machinery. Am I to be toll that a man who starts a brewery, or a paper manufactory, or anything of the kind, does not benefit the Province? In other days, before we had realised our larded estate, this matter might have been looted upon very differently: but now, we have realised a considerable portion of that estate—we have incurred heavy liabilities—and we must recognise the industrial element in our midst, which includes mining, of course. I believe that one of the greatest faults found with the Government is simply that the Government conceive that one class of the community is not entitled to exclusive consideration. I may be addressing those who are interested in agricultural pursuits; but I must say, that while agriculturists are entitled to have their interests watched over and protected, they are not entitled to exclusive protection—(applause)—and that, let them agitate as they may, they will find that they will lose by claiming any such thing—for it always happens that where any persons pretend to a dominant influence they are not entitled to, they obtain less consideration and influence than they really are entitled to. I believe that if you were to poll those who follow agricultural pursuits, you would find a large majority who do not claim to occupy the position of having a right to ask from the Province a larger share of protection or attention than is given to other classes of the community.—(Hear, hear.) The Government has been honestly and anxiously desirous to promote all the interests which are represented in the Province. They have desired to give assistance to the agricultural, the manufacturing, and the mining interest. I believe that very little time will elapse before there is a Sugar Factory in the Province. There is already on the way here, a large quantity of the very best kind of Sugar Beet seed; and it is proposed to distribute it with a view of obtaining seed, so as to cultivate Beet extensively. There is reason to believe that a Woollen Factory j will before long be established in Milton—(hear, hear)—and another is talked of in Dunedin—under the stimulus of the bonus offered by the Government. There ' is another matter which the Government has taken in hand most warmly—which the Government will never rest satisfied until it has carried out—and which is quite as important to you as the. question, whether this or that farmer is able to obtain grazing rights beyond his immediate neighborhood. I say, that the day on which a Railway to the Clutha is commenced, will be a grand day for Tokomairiro—(applause)—and the Government will never be content until that work is commenced. Had it not been for the new idol—this "most popular man in the country, Major Richardson"—we should last session have got the Otago Southern Trunk Railway included in the Public Debts Act, and so have got page 7 money at 6 per cent, instead of having difficulty in getting it at 8 per cent.—(Hear, hear.) It is from the present much-abused Government that you get the L2 to L1 subsidy for Road Districts—(A Voice: We can't get it)—and for towns. It is very well for Major Richardson ——but perhaps you think that I am referring too much to him; so let me put the matter in a fair light before you. Major Richardson comes down, and, for about the fifth time, he makes "his last appearance" on the political stage. When public performers or others make last appearances and take benefits, once or twice, people are lenient with them; but when the thing is repeated five or six times, folks are liable to begin to inquire into the matter. Major Richardson comes down here at a time when the Government have just had a very hard fight upon many matters : he comes down possessed of considerable influence, and a grace of manner and style in which he is not excelled by any public man in New Zealand, and he speaks—very innocently, no doubt. But we can see through it all, and can discern its object—which is, simply, to strengthen the feeling of dissatisfaction which is abroad in the Province.—("Hear, hear," and applause.) At a time when money was as plentiful as money well could be, did the Road Districts get their L2 to L1? No, it has been left to this Government to give practical effect to the many fine theories on that subject.—("Hear, hear," and applause.) You are asked to make, and told that you ought to make, great organic changes in your institutions. I ask you to consider well, before you give up what you have.—(Hear, hear.) I think that Otago, notwithstanding all its difficulties, has much of which to be proud. Are our Educational Institutions not such as we may be proud of? Are they suffering, in the hands of the Provincial Government? Since we have been in office, we have had very difficult departmental reforms to carry out. The Gaol department and the Pilot department were in a wretched state of disorganisation. They are not so now; and it is really not easy to re-model departments. I need not speak of the difficulties thrown upon the Government by the seizure of the Goldfields. But for the strong action of the Government, would not that most important portion of the Province have been made into a County, like Westland, or on the model of Timaru? Personally, it matters very little to me whether you agree with me on these things: in a public point of view, it matters to me very much, because I feel a very keen interest in public matters, [think it is right that those who have control of the affairs of the Province, and that its electors, should well understand what they are about, and should not lightly sanction changes which they may j have occasion to regret.—(Hear, hear.)