The following is a report of a lecture delivered at Victoria University by Sir Leslie Munro, K.C.M.G., K.C.V.O., secretary-general of the International Commission of Jurists. The lecture was organised by the New Zealand Section of the International Commission of Jurists.

Teenage girls and boys are to be seen drilling everywhere in the streets of Java. Uniformed men and women are to be seen everywhere. For the country is in a state of war. Java today is a scene of destruction; broken streets and crumbling pavements are a common sight. Disorganisation reigns in Java. Yet, not so many years ago, Java was actually a very wealthy country.

Arrests

On January 16 of this year, two former prime ministers, an attorney-general, and a number of people of great eminence were arrested. The arrests were never disclosed in the Press. This conspiracy of silence was the result of government action.

The people behind these arrests are creating a new system of law; they need a different type of democracy from ours; unlike we in New Zealand, they cannot afford to have press freedom.

Pakistan

Pakistan is our ally in Seato. When Sir Leslie arrived in East Pakistan, the students at the university there had gone on strike. He was met by the Dean of the Law faculty, and one of the judges.

The previous afternoon, the students had thrown out three members of the intelligence service who had been passing themselves off as students at the university.

On the same day, a Minister was supposed to give a talk on foreign affairs. But the students said that they were not interested in foreign affairs, but were more concerned with domestic affairs. The Minister was thrown out of the campus also. Sir Leslie was next on the list of speakers. But apparently, he survived.

Riots

The day after he arrived, the students began a series of riots which were to last for several days. He went to see for himself, at one of these riots, and someone translated to him what some of the students had been shouting. It was: "Would they not, as fathers, save them?" (The students were presumably appealing to the government ministers. One of their number had been killed In a clash that day).

There was a declaration of martial law; and the Supreme Court actually held that fundamental human rights no longer existed. The ex-premier in East Pakistan was thrown into prison. By virtue of the decision of the Supreme Court, he could not apply for a Habeas Corpus; for he had no human rights; he had no right to freedom.

The practitioners, with great courage, demanded that he should be tried the ordinary way. The outcome is still unsettled.

Much as Sir Leslie respected the Chief Justice, he could not agree with his views.

Calcutta

Calcutta was a scene of incredible poverty, dirt, and misery. Mr Nehru was doing his best. But it is possible that India is not improving fast enough. To improve any faster, however, it would be necessary to resort to force (as the Russians had to do). There were these two ways of improving; but Mr Nehru preferred the democratic way. But sometimes, one is tempted to ask if the democratic way is moving too slowly. There are people who argue that communism has nothing to do with poverty; and that it is equally possible to have communism spreading in a wealthy state. It could be so. Sir Leslie would say however that in Calcutta, we have the most terrible poverty, and we have a very great advance in communism.

South Vietnam

Communism has a great effect on the Rule of Law. It has the most devastating effect imaginable. Every judge is subordinate to the power; and judges in an un free state immediately lose all ideas of judicial integrity. Everything must be done to advance the aims of the party.

It is idle however, to think that it is only the communists who are giving trouble. In South Vietnam, the government has also the task of fighting against other distant opponents. While Sir Leslie was there, there was another revolution going on. (A revolution is legal if it is successful).

The Americans are the main supporters in this strife-torn country. Whatever mistakes the United States of America may have made in their administration, whatever criticisms we may direct against them, the fact remains that the United States is the only one who is contributing towards the defence of this stronghold.

If Vietnam goes, the countries to the south of it will probably go as well; and Australia and New Zealand will almost certainly be affected.

Sir Leslie pointed out that he was not claiming that Vietnam was very democratic; they needed a democracy different from us. But if Vietnam takes over, a chain reaction would spread, until Malaya would be taken over as well. Then we would have trouble on our doorsteps.

The British realise this. They are giving terrific support; they have tremendous assets in Singapore

New Zealand is not contributing quite enough. The burden falls mainly on the United States and the United Kingdom. Most people in New Zealand probably do not appreciate this. New Zealand and Australia should get together more often; the day may come when New Zealand and Australia will have constitutional relations closer than anyone ever dreamt of.

The Rule of Law is therefore related closely to the socio-economical conditions of a country.

We all need land reform urgently. In some countries, the urgency is not realised. The Rule of Law would be impossible without land reform.

The Commission does not think that we can have the Rule of Law in any of these countries unless we have social and economic reforms. It is useless talking to the humble fellow in Nigeria about the Rule of Law unless he is satisfied that he is taking part in a movement of socio-economic reform for economic advancement. The strife in Ceylon, in Pakistan, in Vietnam, in Germany, in Indonesia, shows just how urgent it is to better the living conditions of the proletariat.