Mr. David Jennings, being duly sworn, states: I lave lived at Motueka 20 years. The object of my letter to the Nelson Examiner was to show that the experiment of teaching Maoris alone, as had been done, had been thoroughly, ably, and honestly tried, and had wholly failed. I attribute the failure to the absence of any attempt to bring up a few of the Maori boys in company with English boys. I am quite aware that the attempt to educate them with any of the lower class would not succeed; but I have always thought that the education of a few Maori boys with boys of a higher class, were the temptation of a higher education offered as an inducement, must to some extent succeed. I consider the Auckland College (the Bishop's) was a failure as a self-supporting institution, but I am not aware that it failed educationally. My experience is that instances have crossed my path of real elevation of character having been given to Natives through the means of that institution. I think the feelings of the Natives are very favourable towards education, but I think they are incapable of appreciating its full value, or of anything advanced beyond what they see to be absolutely useful; but I believe such power of appreciation would be the result of previous education. I never heard any complaints on their part of the manner in which the land was acquired. I consider that I am on very friendly terms with the Maoris, and have been more so with many that are now dead. I am not able to give a decided opinion as to their rapid decrease. I have no doubt they are on the decrease; but I attribute this to the want of better education. I remember an instance of a Maori lad, named Robert, who had been educated at the school. He afterwards lived with Major Richmond and other Europeans, and having apparently become highly civilized, ended by marrying and relapsing into the usual Maori habits. He took to drinking, got a complaint in the knee which required amputation, to which he would not consent, and died in consequence,—such indifference to life being a strong feature in the character of savages. I consider I have, and have had, a direct personal interest in the administration of the Wakarewa Trust, as being, in the words of the deed, a European subject of Her Majesty, and also as being the father often children. I applied to Bishop Hobhouse, in prosecution of such claim, on his first coming here, which he recognized very fully on principle. He told me, as I was the only person making such claim, in the present difficulties of the Trust, he had the opportunity of meeting my case for the time by sending a Mr. Wylie, a trained schoolmaster in his employ, to teach my children at my house three times a week. I do not think the Crown land granted tor the institution is so valueless as is generally reported. When I first recollect it, there was the remains of a considerable bush on the bottom of the hill, which had been repeatedly burnt by the firing of the fern. I was going to apply for this land, but heard it had been granted for this object. It is a magnificent site, with land good enough to live upon. There is a very productive garden at the back of the school-house. I think that, except on the steep slopes, the hill land in question is covered with strong fern, which, I think, in its natural state, is more valuable than that which has been rendered excessively foul by bad cultivation, like the lower cultivations on the south-west corner of the Trust land. I have myself excellent grass on land originally fern land which has never been touched by a plough, and also land which has been ploughed at least six times, and cultivated with a cultivator, but is now wholly covered with sorrel, the oats and tares sown upon it having been largely intermixed with the sorrel seed. With respect to the appropriation of the Trust Funds, I never contemplated the application of these, because remuneration for clerical duty would come under the terms of a trust for educational purposes. I consider the arrangement made for paying Mr. Ronaldson as such an appropriation. I object to his going to Takaka and Wakapuaka only as an impediment to his carrying out in a proper manner the education of the children of Her Majesty's subjects of both races. I think the funds as soon as they amounted to what they now yield should have been sufficient to carry on a school which would embrace a small number of Maoris, together page 304with a few Europeans—the Maoris being boarders and the Europeans day scholars, as the first would not have attended unless they were boarded. I think the latter would have come from any distance under three miles. I think that if a few Maori boys even had been well educated in this way, they would have had greater influence with their own class then any Europeans could have had. This is found to be the case in every other circumstance in which we come into contact with a savage rac[gap — reason: damage]. During the latter part of Bishop Hobhouse's time, the house was only made use of as a residence for Mr. John Greenwood, who I believe read Maori service on Sunday.

Mr. Mackay, re-examined: The school was closed from March, 1864, to May, 1868, the date when Mr. Ronaldson took charge.

Mr. Jennings, re-examined: I think it is a question whether the title of the Bishop of Nelson as Trustee under the grant is indisputable, inasmuch as Bishop [gap — reason: damage]elwyn had surrendered his patent—an act which Bishop Suter deprecated. I am afraid this is a difficulty it will require the aid of the Legislature to correct. The "successors" of the Bishop named in the grant were his successors under the patent of the Crown. I apprehend there are no such successors at present.

Mr. Thomas Brunner, having been duly sworn, states: With reference to the Motueka lands held by the Bishop of New Zealand, as far as I remember, I was called into the office of the then Commissioner of Crown lands, and instructed to bring in what plans I had, together with the rent-roll of the Native Trust property at Motueka; first, to point out what I considered an eligible site for a Native school, and then, what land should be given to yield a rental of £100 a year. I was obliged to select almost all, if not quite all, the lands that were then let, which of course was the best of these lands. I suggested the addition of the piece of Crown land on the hill at the back of the Wakarewa Estate, to provide a sort of run for sheep and cattle. I was not a Commissioner of Native Reserves at that time. I consider that the Native reserves at Motueka were made for the benefit of the whole of the Natives in Blind Bay. Mr. Stephens, the surveyor of the New Zealand Company, when he first laid out the Motueka sections, found there was a long strip of Native cultivation along the border of the wood from Waiponamu to Wakarewa. Instead of leaving this in possession of the Maoris in accordance with the terms of the Treaty of Waitangi, he included these cultivations in his surveyed sections, so that they were afterwards chosen as Native reserves, whereas they should have been altogether excluded, and the reserves chosen in addition for the benefit of the Natives. He did increase the particular sections which comprised the cultivations of the Natives, so as to make them include fifty acres besides the part cultivated. But the result was that Mr. Thompson, the Resident Magistrate, was obliged in order to keep the cultivations of the Natives, to select these sections as Native reserves, under the New Zealand Company's arrangement, which created a confusion in administering the trust, because the Commissioners found themselves obliged to treat the New Zealand Company's reserves as land originally belonging to and always retained by the Natives themselves. With respect to the lands given as an endowment for the school, and what the Natives say they have not been paid for, the grant to the Bishop excludes the greater portion of the lands that were Native cultivations. The reserves belonged to the whole of the Natives concerned with the Nelson settlement, as they represented the tenths of lands in other districts. The property given to the Church of England, if given solely for religious purposes, is in my opinion far too large and valuable, taking the numbers of the different sects as the basis. I have always opposed the grant made to the Bishop, because I believed it injurious to the Natives, and also because I believed Motueka was not the proper site for the school. Being in the centre of the Natives, too much jealousy was caused by the feeling that others shared the rents or use of properties belonging to the Motueka Natives only. Having always had a desire to see a school properly tried, I have advised a school in Nelson to be under English masters only, and by following this plain some few children might be taught annually.