Salient. Newspaper of the Victoria University Students' Association. Vol 42 No. 13. June 11 1979

Should Tees Resign?

Should Tees Resign?

The Executive meeting that took place on Wednesday of last week was one of the most argumentative meetings I have ever attended. The Executive spent some two hours discussing the recent interview with Andrew Tees (Salient 5 June) in which he spoke against the Presidential Statement Salient had carried the previous week. The Executive were concerned that the President was failing to represent the Association properly by [ unclear: poblically] taking a stand opposing the motion after it had been una inously passed.

Because of the importance of the debate, and the likelihood that a further rash of accusations against the Executive would arise from it, the Executive requested that the relevant portions of the minutes be printed in Salient. The editor greed to the request, and the minutes are reprinted below.

Although they are at times a little hard to follow. Salient urges all students to read these minutes. They were recorded shorthand by the Association Secretary/Typist, so there can be no question of any bias in the transcript. Although there have been slight changes to increase clarity, what is printed below is virtually a verba turn record of the meeting and those who are perhaps intending to take up arms over the issues would do well to read it.

Present during the debate were: A. Tees, M. Underwood, C. Mass of (who took the chair during the debate recorded below), H. Aikman, P, Sowman, P. Norman and P. Edwards.

In attendance were: S. Underwood, H. Worth, G. Moore-Jones, A. Beach, P. Beach, T. Rochford.

President's Statement

P. Beach drew the attention of the meeting to the minutes of the Special Executive Meeting held on Friday 25 May, during which the President had drafted out a press statement denying that SRC was not representative of the student body. However, in the most recent issue of Salient an interview with the President has been conducted where he takes a completely different stand from what is contained in his press statement.

M. Underwood clarified the situation by saying that the press statement stated Association Policy and the President had agreed to what was contained in this.

P. Norman pointed out that the motion to accept this press statement had been passed unanimously (with the exception of Alan Philips who was not at the meeting when the motion was passed or when the statement had been drafted out) and that no abstentions or dissenting votes had been recorded.

S. Underwood said that A. Tees had made the statement and voted in favour of it — however, he had since gone against this.

A. Tees replied that the interview contained in Salient (5 June) was an informal statement as opposed to a formal statement from the Students' Association.

P. Beach pointed out that when A. Tees is interviewed in Salient, he is interviewed as the official President and not just as A. Tees.

P. Norman said that this was a contentious issue and that it was disturbing to find in the pages of Salient the President going against what he had already said in a press statement. He said that A. Tees is President 24 hours a day and therefore cannot make statements on an informal basis.

A. Tees replied that he had emphasized in the interview that this was a highly personalized, subjective view.

P. Beach said that although he had nothing to do with this edition of Salient, when he saw this interview it appeared to him to be an interview with the President, and not with A. Tees "student". And that all sentiments expressed in the interview were in conflict with the sentiments of the press statement issued by the President on behalf of VUWSA.

A. Tees said that he had stated in the press statement that every officer of the Association is bound by policy of the Association however he then said, "I do not consider I was bound by policy in the interview at all."

P. Norman said that as Environment Affairs Officer he felt bound when issuing public statements and discussing things with the media to state what the Association's policy was on whatever is being discussed. He said if he ever gave his own personal opinion on anything it was not in a context where it will be publicly dispersed. He said that no matter how privately A. Tees intends his comments to be they are still interpreted as being comments from the President of VUWSA in his official capacity.

P. Edwards pointed out that the reason A. Tees was interviewed was because he was President of the Students' Association not because he is "Joe student", and as an elected Officer of the Association he is therefore bound by its policies and must adhere to them.

S. Underwood made the point that as the President is paid to be President for 24 hours every day, he is President 24 hours per day and therefore a public figure - no matter what his personal feelings are he is bound to follow what the majority of the members of the Association decree. He said that as a result of the President's actions the Executive were bound to move a motion of censure in the President, and that the President should retract the sentiments expressed in his interview.

C. Mass of said that this matter had been discussed already for "a number of hours" and whatever statement is released is on behalf of the Association, not by A. Tees "student", but by "A. Tees, President". She said that the President had agreed that Executive members had been discredited and the reason for the statement's release was to defend the Association's credibility and it is now imperative for the Executive to remain together as a body in view of the upcoming campaigns for this year.

A. Tees In answer to that, I have always maintained that I am prepared to express a personal opinion and it is a subjective one of course.

Sowman I think you are missing the point, Andrew. When you make a statement it is made because you are Preside it of the Students' Association. You are not President from 9 to 5, you are the President the whole time, from the time the term starts to the time it finishes and you cannot forget this.

Tees: I don't think I did.

Beach: When you are in public you are not A. Tees, you are A. Tees, President of VUWSA. You are interviewed not because you are Andrew Tees, not because you are important in your own right, but because you are the President of this Association.

Norman: Do you see yourself, Andrew, as President of the Students' Association, or as the representative of the average student?

Tees: The Students' Association is the students — I think that answers the question; well it does as far as I'm concerned.

S. Underwood: Which group of students are you talking about?

Sowman: The silent majority?

A motion was moved:

Moved Underwood/Sowman.

That the President be censured for his remarks in an interview in the 5 June issue of Salient, on his statement released in the previous issue and that the President retracts his remarks in a statement to be placed in the next issue of Salient after ratification by the majority of the Executive.

A. Tees said that he was against this idea as his statement had been a highly personalized subjective statement.

Tees If I was acting in my official capacity I would have said that. I cannot support that I have to retract what I said in a highly personalized interview.

Norman I think the point has to be made [ unclear: that] we have been through all this and I am concerned that the Exec. can pass all the motions of censure it likes and that the statement is issued as requested but then the following [ unclear: week] we see the President quoted as denying the statement. The basis of the problem is that we do not know what Andrew sees as the definition of what his duties and responsibilities of the President of Victoria are supposed to be. Is the motion of censure going to have an effect on you?

Tees Well if you think I am going back home to cry......I'm certainly not going to bawl. It concerns me because I see this as authoritarianism. I think you know the word I am getting at.................

Exec Fascism!

Tees ........but I am not going to use that word as it has been prostituted and profligated around this place so much.

Beach I would not print an article of the size of your interview in Salient if it was from an ordinary student.

Tees: That's probably the trouble with Salient!

Beach When are you going to define when you are an official spokesman and when a private person, so that I have a guide to use. Are you speaking now as the President or as Andrew Tees? How are you speaking now?

Tees If you are going to report this exec meeting I am free to express my opinions at this meeting - you report it in any way you like. I think it is fairly obvious that the there are official and unofficial views - it is a matter of opinion. Perhaps it was not clear to certain people that that particular interview [ unclear: done] by two Salient staff was not considered by me to be an official thing - it was a personalized interview.

Beach What is the position of your letters to the Editor of Salient - you have had two published so far this year?

S. Underwood You've signed the one in this week's issue as the President.

Tees: That was just alluding to the fact that I am President.

Aikman: I wonder if the President views this as a bit of a joke.......

Tees: It doesn't really matter........

Aikman: It does matter

Tees: I do not take it as a joke.

S. Underwood: Are you going to have a solid line on what is the policy of the Association?

A. Tees: It would be pointless to say that I have not disagreed in public with SRC policy, so it is pointless to say it now.

S. Underwood: So the Students' Association has a President who is in no way going to represent the views of the Association?

Tees: That is an incorrect statement

S. Underwood: Perhaps You would like to correct me?

Tees: Do you expect me to follow the Association's policy at Executive meetings and S.R.C.'s?

It was explained to the President by the rest of the meeting that as SRC made the policy of the Association he could not be expected to follow policy that was still in the process of being made.

S. Underwood: So your answer is that you are not necessarily going to follow the Association's policy?

Tees: When I am acting in my official capacity definitely. I do not see myself as acting in an official capacity when I write a letter to Salient.

S. Underwood This is contrary to what you have already done - you sent the letter this week as President. Have you changed your mind since you wrote the letter.

Tees: No I have not!

Sowman: I am only going to be brief. I would like this recorded in the minutes. I am asking for your resignation at this meeting in view of this absolute botch up and because you cannot see the reason behind it, it doesn't look as though you are going to see the reason - I cannot see any other way around it, you must resign.

Tees: I have seen enough "reason" in the last few months.

Beach: You mean reasons for you to resign?

Tees (To P. Beach): Go and fart against the wall or something.

Rochford: You have criticised [ unclear: policy] at SRC on the West German [ unclear: Industrials] your President's Column in [ unclear: Salient -the] to believe that the President's [ unclear: Column] really A. Tees' column?

Beach: You have criticised SRC [ unclear: Policy] blicly through the President's [ unclear: column] is not proper. I have no interest in year but I feel I am bound to set aside [ unclear: cohic] for the President to express the [ unclear: opinion] Association. If you are not going to be acting in an official capacity I will [ unclear: treat] your President's column like any [ unclear: other] [ unclear: icle.] If these are personal columns it [ unclear: will] dramatically affect my attitude [ unclear: towards]

Tees: Well that is in order. You have [ unclear: altie] thing called editorial discretion.

Beach: I print the official policies of [ unclear: the] sociation without question - the only [ unclear: this] that is changed is the grammar. If [ unclear: there] individual views I will treat them in [ unclear: the] category as individual articles that [ unclear: come] Are your columns written from the [ unclear: point] view of A. Tees President or A. Tees [ unclear: pers]

Tees: You are going to hate me [ unclear: when] a reply to this, (laugh) As I understand you can delete or add whatever you [ unclear: like] my Presidential Columns because you [ unclear: are] the Editor.

Beach: There are some things that [ unclear: Salient] is obliged to do. One thing is to [ unclear: inform] dividual students what is happening [ unclear: in the] Association. A statement by the [ unclear: Preside] is always included, and it is one of [ unclear: there] things that is always allowed to remain [ unclear: is] original form. I always thought I was [ unclear: obged] to print this as a duty towards the [ unclear: Asociation], but if this is a personal [ unclear: opining] my obligation ceases. I'm afraid you'll [ unclear: be] to give a yes/no answer - "maybe" [ unclear: is an] enough.

Tees: I have never really regarded the [ unclear: President's] Column as an official statement the President on behalf of the [ unclear: Associatic] I have regarded them as a useful [ unclear: mean] saying for instance "Lets go on a [ unclear: bursari]

Chair: It is understood by the Chair [ unclear: the] President's answer is no.

Beach: Then this, the Presidents' [ unclear: Column] must come in by 12 noon on Wednesday future.

Norman: Should the President's [ unclear: Column] be regarded as a press statement? This should be cleared up now in case it is [ unclear: an] official statement of the Association.

Chair: From what I understand, [ unclear: Peter] have complete rights to choose what is [ unclear: pted.] If it is relevant and follows [ unclear: policy] it becomes "President Says."

Norman: Does the Exec, have the [ unclear: right vet] it?

Edwards: We should have enough [ unclear: trust] the President not to have to do that.

Norman: Do we have that trust?

Tees: (Directed at Paul) "You anogant little animal". The question is not what you have that trust, but whether the [ unclear: wh] and unwashed have that trust (ie. the [ unclear: student].

Edwards: I would also like to call for the President's resignation in light of his [ unclear: atti] tude and also tike to ask that the [ unclear: relevent] sections of the minutes be published in [ unclear: Salient] so that it is made obvious why [ unclear: we] asking for the President's resignation.

Chair: I believe this is notice of motion.

Rochford: You are constitutionally [ unclear: bou] to accept policy of the Association. [ unclear: Eith] change your ways and accept SRC [ unclear: policy] resign - there is no way around this.

S. Underwood then spoke on the [ unclear: matter] of the dismissal of one staff member several years ago - when the President has disagreed with this dismissal, but had to convey the sentiments of the Executive [ unclear: t] this staff member regardless of how he [ unclear: fe] personally, and not publicalty express [ unclear: his] personal views on the matter.

S. Underwood: You have failed to state tegorically if you are making statements the President or as a private student.

[ unclear: Tees] would like to reiute your earlier [ unclear: opinoin] Gyles Beckford's annual report [ unclear: sta] why he disagreed with the [ unclear: Executives] public for everyone to see.

[ unclear: Unawood]: That was in his annual report [ unclear: who] longer President but making a [ unclear: resort] he previous year's work.

[ unclear: Tees] was acting in his official capacity [ unclear: is president.]

[ unclear: Unawood:] There is no such official [ unclear: paper].

[ unclear: Chair:] The difference between what [ unclear: happeneted] pointed out, While you are the [ unclear: President] you are bound to follow [ unclear: policy] - next year you can say what [ unclear: it].

[ unclear: Tees:] nothing more to say at the [ unclear: moment.]

[ unclear: Beach]: I am still unclear under what status [ unclear: precident's] Column is? I would like an [ unclear: the] or "unofficial" answer please?

[ unclear: Well], the President's column is going [ unclear: excess] the views of the President [ unclear: presument.]

[ unclear: Beach:] Official or unofficial views?

[ unclear: Tees:] Well it has contained unofficial views [ unclear: the ast] I do not think it would be [ unclear: nable] that this will be allowed [ unclear: contunue.]

[ unclear: Beach:] I know, and apologise for not [ unclear: realising] at the time.

[ unclear: Tees:] do not need to apologise — [ unclear: Salient] not often apologize for anything!

[ unclear: Jones:] When I read Salient and I see [ unclear: president's] Column I take it (and also [ unclear: people] that I read it with) as being [ unclear: ment] by the President representing [ unclear: what] VUWSA Executive position is on [ unclear: ele] the students. When I see a letter [ unclear: Salient] signed Andrew Tees, I think that [ unclear: drew] Tees speaking as Andrew Tees. [ unclear: Buten] you sign a personal letter as the [ unclear: President], I am bound to take it that you [ unclear: realising] as the president.

[ unclear: Twice] of motion was given:-

[ unclear: Move:] Edwards. "That the President's [ unclear: elegtion] be called for in the light of the [ unclear: atte] of the President, which has become [ unclear: appent] at this Executive Meeting, and in [ unclear: ant] his continued failure to [ unclear: caterly] state when he is speaking, if it is [ unclear: apacity] as President of the Students' [ unclear: mtion], and that the relevant section [ unclear: minutes] of this meeting be published [ unclear: in Salient.]

[ unclear: Unawood:] This does not resolve the [ unclear: probles] whether A. Tees' statements are [ unclear: person] official - this cannot be embodied in [ unclear: on.]

[ unclear: Tees:] I will give an undertaking that in [ unclear: future when] I make a statement I will make it [ unclear: clear] whether it is an official statement [ unclear: official] statement.

[ unclear: Noman:] I cannot understand Andrew's [ unclear: attic] what we are trying to say is that at [ unclear: re] can you be making a personal [ unclear: statement] you are always the President. When [ unclear: igi] a statement you make it as the [ unclear: President] the point should be still made that [ unclear: a] number of my friends see and hear [ unclear: saying] things as the President not as [ unclear: ew] Tees — and you must face up to responsibilities.

[ unclear: rds:] People listen to you because you [ unclear: se] President and take your views as being [ unclear: ews] of the President. People do not to you because you are Andrew Tees, [ unclear: because] you are elected as the President [ unclear: es] Students' Association. And here you [ unclear: saying] that you will make it quite clear it is a personal statement and when it official statement - you cannot make [ unclear: nal] statements because no-one will [ unclear: listion] a statement by an ordinary student in [ unclear: time] way as they would listen to one [ unclear: of] President of the Student' [ unclear: Associaion.]

[ unclear: Beach:] Andrew, when you, a [ unclear: student], [ unclear: th] ordinary Student, and myself [ unclear: Salient] Editor), express an opinion, who [ unclear: freest?]

[ unclear: Tees:] We are all equally free.

[ unclear: Beach:] No, I am the freest, because I [ unclear: con] the media, Gareth is next freest because [ unclear: an] ordinary student, then you - because are the President.

[ unclear: Tees:] I am still entitled to express my own [ unclear: nal] view.

[ unclear: Beach:] When you took up the position of President you abdicated many of those freedoms. That is a fact of life. You did not understand that when you stood for the position, and you still do not understand it. It is quite distressing to me that you can survive as long as you have without actually realising the fact.

It was also pointed out that the Governor General has to sign Acts passed in Parliament regardless of his own views on controversial subjects (such as the C S and A Act.)

Tees: I wish to comment on that. I think that the Governor General would be pretty gutless if he did not voice his disagreement with Acts such as the C.S. and A. if he had strong views contrary to them.

Edwards: If he did he would be immediately sacked.

A procedural motion was moved:—

Moved: Chair. That the substantive motion be put.

Carried, Dissent; Tees

The motion (Underwood/Sowman) was put and

Carried, Dissent: Tees

The motion which had been given notice of was then considered.

It was suggested that this be put as two separate motions - one concerning the resignation of the President, and the other regarding the printing of the minutes in Salient.

The first motion was moved as follows: —

Moved: Edwards/Sowman.

That the President be asked to resign because of his failure to state when he will state the policy of the Association when making public statements.

Carried, Dissent: Tees

Moved: Edwards/Sowman.

That the relevant section of the minutes of this meeting be published in Salient.

A. Tees said that he did not feel the minutes of this meeting should be published in Salient.

It was pointed out that at the Executive Meeting of 29 May the President had moved a motion as follows:—

Moved: Tees/Philips

That all Executive minutes which have been confirmed be hung on the Association no— ticeboard, and that Salient be asked to report after each Executive Meeting.

Tees: In this particular case I do not see it as being productive to publish these minutes in their original form in Salient.

M. Underwood: Because they are against you?

Tees: No, I see it as making the Executive look like a playground - if you want to portray it as that go ahead. "Publish and be damned" as I think they say.

S. Underwood: I think that the comment you made has summed up the problem — you seem to regard this matter with a total lack of seriousness. We are trying to see your credibility as the President. I am a member of the Trust - a company owned by the Students' Association. Now, am I to take it that you are there as a Director and Trustee in your capacity as an individual when you hold this position ex-officio as the President of the Students' Association, and with anthing you say or do it is at our discretion to decide whether you are acting on behalf of the Students' Association or the Executive. You may disagree with the policy of the Executive but it is your responsibility to go along with it, because that is the will of everyone here. All we are trying to do is to get a categorical statement from you. In your statement you have gone against things that you have said in previous meetings. You are inconsistent and this is causing problems in the Association.

Tees: I do not think it is very likely that I am ever going to write to the Minister or Education on our official notepaper giving personal views which may or may not be contrary to the Students' Association.

Beach: This solves Steve's problem when he sits on the Trust?

Tees: I will comment on that further. I represent what Executive says on these things.

Beach: On money you are okay - and with the Minister of Education you are fine, but we cannot get a formal resolution on the President's Column. What about Victoria's Education Policy?

Tees: Yes I supported Victoria's Education Policy in the past.

Norman: Andrew, when you say that you supported Victoria's Education Policy in the past - if it was changed at the next SRC would you still write to the Minister of Education as outlined by that policy?

Tees: Yes.

Norman: What was your official comment on the German Industrialists in Salient?

Chair: We have got completely away from what we are supposed to be talking about.

Sowman: I would tike topoint out that you are now complaining about getting the minutes published when last week you moved a motion to the opposite effect.

Tees: I do not see it as being inconsistent because this particular motion does not affect this particular set of minutes. I do not see it as being proper. I do not think we should publish these minutes in Salient at all.

Sowman: Should your motion last week be read as meaning that only some sets of minutes should be posted on the notice board?

Tees: I would go so far to move a motion that this particular set of minutes should not be published.

Edwards: What?

Tees: I do not feel there is any need to publish them.

Beach: Why do you think that?

Tees: Well to protect the Executive and its good name.

Beach: What has the Executive done at this meeting that renders it in need of protection?

Tees: I would like to read a statement I have been writing which is unfinished:

A statement on the proceedings at the Executive meeting 6 June 1979.

I would like to make it quite clear that I see the proceedings of this meeting as totally unnecessary and obstructive to the general working of the Students' Association (i.e. not the Executive members' Association.) Unfortunately they have now also chosen to obstruct me in my official capacity as President...........

Beach: Where are you going to have that published? In Salient?

Chair: Is this going to be an official statement or an unofficial statement and if so, is it going to be published? If it is, I hope it is not going to be through Association finances.

Tees: No, not through Association finances.

M. Underwood: You have just said that the Executive are obstructing you.

Tees: Sure, I believe they are. Nothing at all can persuade me for the next three hours that we are here — I am not going to change my mind.

H. Worth: Does this mean that the President has total powers to do anything that he damn well wishes? Does this mean that you have total power, because it certainly looks like it to me as an outsider. You can say it's a joke.

Tees: I never said I thought it was a joke.

Norman: You seem to feel that we are trying to obstruct you - we are trying to ensure the efficient running of the Association.

Tees: Ha ha ha

Norman: We are trying to ensure the efficient running of the Association. We are unable to do this at present because leadership in the Association is uncertain and quaverring. It is going trom one point to another point - changing its mind from week to week. We must be consistent. We are not trying to obstruct you - we are trying to obstruct your activities that are affecting this Association detrimentally. We are concerned that the way the voice of the President is being exercised is not the way is should be exercised. You are not the Andrew Tees of the Students' Association, but the President.

Tees: I can see that you are trying to obstruct me in a personal capacity. If I do any-thing in my capacity as President you are also, and I adhere to that view.

Chair: I think perhaps you got Paul wrong, perhaps we obstruct you on a personal level but not at a Presidential level. We are merely asking you to follow the Association's policy as it stands at the moment and that includes decisions by the Executive. tive.

Beach: I can only reiterate what the Chair has said. I do not think you realize that the role of President is very limited - far more constrained than any other elected representative of this Association. As the President you are constantly constrained in what you can do. I will make the comment that this Executive cannot obstruct you in your official capacity.

Edwards: Question. Andrew you are a member of an organization and the livelihood of the Association is paramount because you are elected by the organization. Could you please tell us how this Executive has obstructed the Association by this discussion?

Tees: Well, I will tell you here. I see a long Agenda and I see no progress.

Beach: Why is there no progress?

Tees: Because of the situation. Because of members of this Executive around this table.

Norman: Name them.

Beach: I would like to name them in Salient.

Tees: People present in this room at the moment.

Beach: Everybody?

Tees: I am referring to the Executive.

Beach: Every one Exec member at this meeting is obstructing the President?

Tees: Certainly.

M. Underwood: How are we obstructing you? How am I obstructing you?

Tees: I will tell you how. You are obstrructing me because as I told you before, I see a long Agenda in front of me and I want to proceed with it, and I am not being allowed to.

Moore-Jones: Every time the question of putting the motion arises you say you want to speak further.

Tees: That's a complete red herring. If you want this issue to be discussed, I am willing to doso.

Norman: We want the matter resolved. Are you resigning or not?

Tees: I will consider it.

Moved: Norman/Edwards. That the motion be put.

Tees: I dissent from that.

Sowman: Are we holding you up! I want it noted that he has dissented against a motion to move onto more business and says "we are obstructing him."

The Chairperson declared the motion:— Carried.

The substantive motion was put and:— Carried [ unclear: unaivmously.]

Tees: I voted for this motion, but I have very strong reservations about it.

Drawing of a rifle with multiple barrels

Rifle for a one-man [ unclear: seige]

The redoubtable array of barrels affords excellent cover against a multifarious enemy.